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  • Nothing has really been done to prevent casinos

    Casinos became illegal around 2015 and they are still popular and show no signs of going away. Mods just keep wasting their time chasing after the casino worlds and those who illegally run them still profit. They never suffer a big loss either when the casino gets nuked all their accounts are just alts that are easily replaced, and the dls they get from tax they drop somewhere else in a world with a password door probably so their main can go and collect them. The casino worlds are cheaply and easily built and disposable.

    With how things are currently they just get more and more dls and mods are trying to catch up to them but it's already too late when the world gets nuked they have already gotten what they want. And since they are already doing something illegal (having casinos) chances are high that they do other illegal things with the diamond locks they get (selling for real money).

    They have Instagram accounts, discord servers, and more were they tell their players where they can play. The more surface level casinos do sbs to get players. They also put bots in link worlds so more people come from the recommended world screen. They keep finding more and more ways to be efficient at hosting casinos while the way we deal with them have stayed the same, nuking a useless world, banning their alts, and repeat.

    I don't really know much about this but it seems like the economy is pretty inflated and a big reason is that more gems, wls are being generated than what gets removed. One way to deal with this would be to introduce something that players could win/lose wls with and there it would be a % tax of wls that gets taken away. So instead of some guy that will probably sell the dls getting tax wls the game removes it.

    This could be implemented like a chance to win (pick a random card highest number wins) or something skill based. And it could be against another player. Player 1 wants to play with 25 WLs and player 2 agrees. They both use 25 WLs and whoever wins gets 50 WLs - the tax. Maybe its 5%? So the winner gets 47 WLs (Rounded down from 47.5). Now 3 WLs that were in the game no longer are and they didn't go to an illegal casino host.

    The taxes could be based on how much many WLs being used. For example 1-100 WLs 5% Tax, 100-500 10% Tax. The numbers can of course be changed.

    One of the reasons casinos became illegal were that players were using all their world locks and losing them then complaining. Which of course can be annoying with people complaining to you but don't you think now they have learned something? Maybe don't use more than you can afford. Losing world locks is already possible through so many legal ways. You could be unlucky and buy a growscan for 14 DLs when it rose from 5 DLs to 14 DLs in a couple of hours then crashed down back to 5 DLs just as fast if not even faster (After a youtuber did a video buying many growscans). That's a loss of 9 DLs which is more than what many people have. It teaches risk management. And with the growscan you can't even predict what will happen since it depends on other people and not a random % chance or your skills, or at least its easier to see the risk in a random % than investing in items.

    Another reason why casinos got banned is because how easily you could scam / get scammed by being a legit casino up to a certain point when enough dls are being used. This wouldn't be a problem if instead of trusting a person with your wls its through the game like a special world with something you can wrench.

    There are already ways to gamble in the game if gambling is the problem. You could buy ghc for all your world locks and gems and you have no clue what the % is to get a golden heart crystal. Which btw isn't that aginst iOS terms of service having a randomized loot mechanic and not give clear odds to what you can get? There are other randomized things too like super fire works, easter crates, super summer surprises all of these could be considered gambling. I don't have a problem with randomized chance being in the game I'm just saying that a feature were randomized chance / skill could be used to win world locks by betting your own through a system that isn't another player wouldn't be something very different than to what we already have.

    Implementing something similar to this would be direct competition to the casinos and while still having player run casinos illegal more and more people will see less benefit in risking their accounts and wls and go to the legal version instead.

    If you got any other arguments for/against i'll be reading them

  • #2
    Reasons why casino players choose csns over other “gambling” ways are because:

    •Costs Time:
    If you were to gamble with gbcs/sfw you need spend time camping in the BUY worlds searching for sellers, that’s except it happens to be valentines week or summerfest and for 7 days u can be lucky but even if you were to get a rare drop from gbc/sfw the price would be at its lowest during the event period. While in casinos you can just enter a casino found on the recommended hub, drop whatever amount, press a roulette and win or lose.
    •Extreme amount of profits:
    In casinos the chance of doubling your bet is 50% while in for example gbc the percentage to profit is super low probably 1/500 and that’s if you get angel wings, don’t even get started on the rarity of GHC.

    Although casinos are illegal and everyone knows it, people still don’t care as mods ban casinos for maximum 1 hour a day. Banning them aren’t enough like you said and ye maybe they could add a world like carnival full of betting games like blackjack, slots etc and can help with the huge amounts of dls being sold on black market and destroy casino owners’ businesses. Having a world like that would have nobody coming to those illegal worlds as why not the chances of getting scammed are 0% and it’s safe.

    Also with what you said about example valentine packs being against ios terms of service, I think what they are referring to if the game makes you pay let’s say 5 dollar to gamble for a chance to get something. Many other games have same feature as GT, like loot crates costing 500 gold blah blah.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ZepperQ View Post
      One way to deal with this would be to introduce something that players could win/lose wls with and there it would be a % tax of wls that gets taken away. So instead of some guy that will probably sell the dls getting tax wls the game removes it.

      This could be implemented like a chance to win (pick a random card highest number wins) or something skill based. And it could be against another player. Player 1 wants to play with 25 WLs and player 2 agrees. They both use 25 WLs and whoever wins gets 50 WLs - the tax. Maybe its 5%? So the winner gets 47 WLs (Rounded down from 47.5). Now 3 WLs that were in the game no longer are and they didn't go to an illegal casino host.

      The taxes could be based on how much many WLs being used. For example 1-100 WLs 5% Tax, 100-500 10% Tax. The numbers can of course be changed.
      Also could you please explain what you mean here

      noice my post above got flagged as spam even tho I editing it once. Lol

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      • ZepperQ
        ZepperQ commented
        Editing a comment
        I had time to read it but now its gone xd

    • #4
      Originally posted by Kinganjing View Post
      Also with what you said about example valentine packs being against ios terms of service, I think what they mean is the game makes you pay let’s say 5 dollar to gamble for a chance to get something. Many other games have same feature as GT, like loot crates costing 500 gold blah blah.
      I meant that I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the appstore guidelines/terms of services it says that if there is like a lootbox or something similar you need to be able to see what your chances of getting the different items are.

      So let's say there is 0,01% to get GHC and 2% to get angel wings then that percentage should be displayed somewhere in like a full list off all the items and the possibilities

      Originally posted by Kinganjing View Post
      •Costs Time:
      If you were to gamble with gbcs/sfw you need spend time camping in the BUY worlds searching for sellers, that’s except it happens to be valentines week or summerfest and for 7 days u can be lucky but even if you were to get a rare drop from gbc/sfw the price would be at its lowest during the event period. While in casinos you can just enter a casino found on the recommended hub, drop whatever amount, press a roulette and win or lose.
      I can definitely see it being like this that's why another easy alternative needs to compete with the illegal ones

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      • #5
        Originally posted by Kinganjing View Post

        Also could you please explain what you mean here

        noice my post above got flagged as spam even tho I editing it once. Lol
        Let's say you can "challenge" another player so you both bet 25 WLs each now the price pool is 50 WLs and whoever wins get it, but the game takes a "tax" of the 50 WLs so the player that wins gets 47 WLs instead of 50 after tax if the tax is 5%


        You could develop this more by making higher price pools take more % tax.

        If the total price pool is less than 25 WLs 1% Tax
        If its between 25-100 WLs 5% Tax
        If its between 100-500 WLs 10% Tax

        The numbers are just examples it could also be so low amount price pools has 0%

        Another example if we each bet 250 WLs so the price pool adds up to 500 WLs then there would be a 10% Tax on that instead of the 5% that was in the smaller price pool. So the winner of the 500 price pool would get 450 WLs and the rest 50 WLs would be removed from the game (no one gets them)

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        • #6
          you know in a real world context, (i dont really know if i could say this at the forums) but "illegal" operations such as casinos and brothels are "secretly allowed" by governments in SOME countries. Some casinos were given LEGIT licenses by the government to operate, and this act alone deters those UNDERGROUND CASINOS from operating, players will head to the legit casinos to play, in return, the government could control the operations of the casinos and brothels to a certain extent, while collecting a reasonable amount of tax from these operations. While doing routine checks regarding their operations.

          I know that the brothel situation doesnt apply in growtopia but as for the casino side. I know ubisoft will NEVER or at least does not have the intention to legalize casinos ATM as this game is for kids and there are kids playing it. But lets say, WHAT IF there is a "moderated" casino out there. im not sure about the tax rate of illegal casinos out there but lets say, they take a progressive tax scheme which this guy previously calculated

          The government in real world reflects mods (parliament members) and Ubisoft (supposedly the government)

          "If the total price pool is less than 25 WLs 1% Tax
          If its between 25-100 WLs 5% Tax
          If its between 100-500 WLs 10% Tax" quoted from post by ZepperQ

          I know the mods or the developers doesnt care about profit from tax but they could just dump away these wls/dls they got from the casinos aka slowing down inflation.

          The point of my post is saying, in a real world context, if you tell people to not gamble, underground casinos will be operated as there is definitely gamblers (demand) and if they open a underground casino (illegal casino in growtopia) they WILL get profits even tho its risky. But IRL police can do random spot checks and raids to catch the people operating the underground casinos, but in GTP everything is virtual and anonymous, and the MASTERMIND will NEVER EVER show himself in those casinos. Basically if you tell them casino is illegal, there will be people who will operate this "business" illegally as there are demands from the people.

          Same as GTP, there are hidden elements of gambling present in GTP too, maybe you havent realise it or not. I'll list some, Valentine Golden Booty Chests, Surgery rewards, Startopia rewards, Fishing, Summer Blasts and some other i cant think of at the moment. But what im saying is if ever GTP dev or mods ever legallise and opened a legal casino, they will be able to monitor the process/transactions and LARGELY reduce the attractiveness and crowd to these illegal casinos operated by growtopians.

          ps. hope my grammer is understood by yall xD

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          • #7
            Originally posted by ZepperQ View Post

            Let's say you can "challenge" another player so you both bet 25 WLs each now the price pool is 50 WLs and whoever wins get it, but the game takes a "tax" of the 50 WLs so the player that wins gets 47 WLs instead of 50 after tax if the tax is 5%


            You could develop this more by making higher price pools take more % tax.

            If the total price pool is less than 25 WLs 1% Tax
            If its between 25-100 WLs 5% Tax
            If its between 100-500 WLs 10% Tax

            The numbers are just examples it could also be so low amount price pools has 0%

            Another example if we each bet 250 WLs so the price pool adds up to 500 WLs then there would be a 10% Tax on that instead of the 5% that was in the smaller price pool. So the winner of the 500 price pool would get 450 WLs and the rest 50 WLs would be removed from the game (no one gets them)
            How would that stop illegal casinos?
            Lets say at the end 47wls is won from 50wls, and the game somehow takes 3wls, the csn owner would just take 3wls again for himself
            Also I think it would be hard for the game to indentify if 2 people are playing csn and weather to take tax or not, let alone calculate it

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            • #8
              Casinos are good for the game. It shows that the game is worth something to do illegal with
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              • #9
                But isnt virtual gambling illegal for underage players

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                • #10
                  Every single time a 'solution' is brought up with casinos, they ignore these factors:

                  - Casinos themselves are merely the tools and providers for the larger and greater issue which is the black market (a.k.a. illegally selling DLs for $). This is because casinos allow players to accumulate wealth quickly and efficiently. The efficacy of this comes from the fact that casinos are fast-paced, binary (you either win it all or lose it all), explicit & open (players know exactly how much they'll win and are aware of the chances), and addictive. Removing casinos (if and however that is done) would inhibit a large proportion of the market for illegal trading, but it does not remove the problem of illegal trading entirely.
                  - Providing the game with legal versions of casinos will not only promote and entice players to gamble but would also then promote and benefit illegal trading as it is allowing more players to be apart of the betting community which always results in the same motive of selling items for cash.
                  - If legal gambling was a thing, then the game would have to be rated 18+. This would deface Growtopia for being child-friendly, which is its target audience thus being counterintuitive. Betting was made illegal due to its harmful nature and that it was not suitable for a child's game.
                  - If legal gambling became automated via the system, bots would then be able to automate the system themselves could quicken the process, especially utilising probability theories (such as the Martingale strategy).
                  - Removing tools used in casinos that enable such, such as roulette wheels or dice blocks, won't solve the problem of casinos but rather just cause inconvenience to the ones that host them. There is a multitude of ways to gamble in Growtopia, even utilising the game's core mechanics that cannot be tampered with. As long as a player pays for a chance to win, it will be illegal.
                  - The players who run these illegal activities set up countless strategies to hide their casinos and manoeuvre items around the game illegally (most relevant to this topic in the form of a player's "bank" to bet from) without being caught or jeopardising the assets. The casinos that you see in the world selection menus and being widely broadcasted are the surface to the many, more tightly kept casinos that harbour a larger impact on the black market.

                  Casinos are a cancerous part of Growtopia. Ubisoft is not ignoring the problem, there is just no feasible or simple solution to preventing or removing them - if there was, I'd gladly think that Ubisoft would've taken action on them already as it damages the reputation of the game and income.


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                  • JimIzPro
                    JimIzPro commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I second this

                • #11
                  Originally posted by Kinganjing View Post

                  How would that stop illegal casinos?
                  Lets say at the end 47wls is won from 50wls, and the game somehow takes 3wls, the csn owner would just take 3wls again for himself
                  Also I think it would be hard for the game to indentify if 2 people are playing csn and weather to take tax or not, let alone calculate it
                  That part isn't about preventing illegal casinos it's more to work against the inflation of world locks. Think about it like this the system would work like trading both players put how much they want to bet and when they put the same amount one of them will randomly win and the winner gets the WLs - the tax taken away by the game before giving the winner the WLs.

                  This could be a game of chance or a game of skill but the problem with a game of skill it that growtopia servers rent reliable enough to do parkour races and stuff like that.

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                  • #12
                    Originally posted by Jedaki View Post
                    But isnt virtual gambling illegal for underage players
                    Then isn't buying a bunch of valentine packs then opening them hoping to get GHC also virtual gambling? But that's even worse because you have no idea what the chances are to win.

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                    • #13
                      I agree with this. Legal betting could be highly regulated too. You could make it so that people have to be a certain level to play. Roulette wheels should be completely banned too. And idk
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                      • #14
                        Don't you think they would require the players to have their accounts on 18 years old (and possibly lie) if they added legal gambling?

                        Other than the scam-potential reason, they didn't want to have Growtopia rated 18.

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                        • #15
                          This is a common sight for me. I see this every day in my recommended worlds. There appears to be no mods that take any interest into banning casinos, if they had the slightest interest, all they had to do is leave a world and just join all the recommended worlds.

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