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Thread: What are your thoughts on this........

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    Master Sorcerer Kay72's Avatar
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    Default What are your thoughts on this........

    Living for religion is the easiest way to repress yourself, especially considering that believers don't like to ponder the idea of their belief being wrong; it's not only uncomfortable to be wrong, but also to consider, you could be wasting your life doing so.

    Life is multifaceted, so focusing on a single unit dulls every other aspect of life. Ironically, most indulge in acts which violate the rules in their belief, but still try to keep up appearances; this hypocritical behavior isn't reflected on though, because, 'you can find forgiveness in your lord'.

    Why does hell exist, if any punishable act can be forgiven by conformation?
    What constitutes straying away from the desired path of God, Nirvana, or the four fold path?
    How does one achieve self actualization, if they are committed to God?
    No one ever asks these questions, because they restrain themselves from the thought of questioning a higher power. Furthermore, we establish restrains on activities under the guise it will mislead us. How can you appreciate something you've never experienced?



    I hope this isn't a thread that could get me banned just for going against religion.......
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    Master Sorcerer thepronub's Avatar
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    Well, people need something to keep them going. Religion is that something which people can hold on to for dear life.
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    Master Sorcerer Hailfire's Avatar
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    Alright, this is my two cents on this topic.

    Before I begin, let me just put it out there that I myself am a self-declared aethiest. I personally do not believe in a singular religion or entity.

    That being said, I don't think that believing in a religion or having faith in an invisible "higher power" is evidence of a lack of critical thinking or drains the joys of life by being a primary focus in a person's life.

    The idea and desire that there is someone out there looking out for you, someone who will protect you and lead you to happiness is so inherently human. For the first parts of our lives, all of us had that in the form of our parents, and leaving that kind of security is terrifying. To be able to believe in another higher power to protect you isn't an example of mindless indoctrination, but the fulfillment of a fundamental human desire.

    The part about forgiveness is also more or less rational of you consider the role religion plays in most people's lives. People are human, and to be human is to be flawed. Everyone will mess up at some point, several times over along the course of a lifetime. The idea that no matter how badly you've screwed up, you can receive forgiveness by repenting in extremely comforting. However, the idea of Hell is also somewhat reassuring because it means that in the end everyone who was truly "evil", who did terrible things that they got away with, will get what's coming to them.

    Ultimately, having faith in something is a primordial aspect of the human psyche, and serves as something baneficial that brings hope and joy to billions of people.

    Of course, there are also people that use religion as an excuse to commit terrible atrocities, but they are the definite minority, the 1 in 1000000.

    Honestly, I think that we should all just live and let live. Whatever coping methods people have for the eternal struggle that is life, good for them.

    PS: Sorry if this has spelling mistakes or rambles on in places, I was really tired, and I typed the whole thing on mobile.

    Also, this post isn't meant to offend anyone, and is purely my opinion.
    Last edited by Hailfire; 07-11-2018 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Fixed spelling errors in my blurb about spelling errors.
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    Master Sorcerer Ohlid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay72 View Post
    Living for religion is the easiest way to repress yourself, especially considering that believers don't like to ponder the idea of their belief being wrong; it's not only uncomfortable to be wrong, but also to consider, you could be wasting your life doing so.

    Life is multifaceted, so focusing on a single unit dulls every other aspect of life. Ironically, most indulge in acts which violate the rules in their belief, but still try to keep up appearances; this hypocritical behavior isn't reflected on though, because, 'you can find forgiveness in your lord'.

    Why does hell exist, if any punishable act can be forgiven by conformation?
    What constitutes straying away from the desired path of God, Nirvana, or the four fold path?
    How does one achieve self actualization, if they are committed to God?
    No one ever asks these questions, because they restrain themselves from the thought of questioning a higher power. Furthermore, we establish restrains on activities under the guise it will mislead us. How can you appreciate something you've never experienced?



    I hope this isn't a thread that could get me banned just for going against religion.......
    To preface my take on this, I would like to state that if you inquired such expecting an answer greater than, "I think hell exists because bad people exist," you have unfortunately asked the wrong crowd, OP. Also, I would like you to first answer your own questions. But enough of that — might as well contribute considering this deals with the hypocrisies of religion and not the semantics or particulars of a Bible verse outdated by millennia.

    Religion has clearly changed interpretations throughout history, even one religion under the same god diverging due to practice and ideology. One must first ask the question, "What constitutes a religion as such?" Is it a collective moral ideology? Is it belief in an entity that presides over all? Various theological philosophers have different takes on this question, and I would highly recommend perusing philosophy about morality before philosophy over theology. But what is the most pertinent of religion is that it can change and adapt at the will of those who practice it (which puts more power in those that practice, but as I have explicitly warned, I am not to argue the existence of a god).

    I refuse to draft pages and cite every work discussing the psychology and theology of morality, but it is impossible to live a life being a paragon of objective moral principles portrayed in religion. Hell, both Christianity and Islam have both disregarded the idea of murder to satisfy an arguably less pressing idea of preserving the religion in the Crusades. Not to mention that because nobody can live a life perfectly adhering to moral principles, all religions have had people that have gone against the teachings of said religion.

    That question was an easy one; however, literally no one has a definite answer to any question proceeding that. I, as an atheist, view hell or any equivalents as a warning sign as to what happens when one strays from the path of said religion (and many moral principles in various religions mirror each other, so uh...). Possessing limited knowledge in the specifics of Christianity — which I presume is the main topic — I cannot disclose any further than what an outsider looking in would see.

    As to what constitutes an infraction upon the teachings of a religion, that depends on the religion. As I have said, religion has a open definition. Many Christians are not practicing Christians, but abide by the morality taught in Christianity and even believe in God. Those who believe faith earns a position in the afterlife may not see everyday sin as damning as one who believes in justification by good works. Hell, trying to Google the word describing "everyday sin" (because as vapid and uninteresting Bible study was, I did go twice a week for nine years of my life and I know there was a word taught) people do not agree on what classifications and worth sins have.

    As for the subsequent two, they are plainly rhetorical under the assumption that one stringently follows whichever religion they subscribe to. Aforesaid, there are varying degrees of practice that, if one still considers those who practice such integral members of the main religion, are less bound by their religion than those who do stringently follow their religion.

    The last inquiry questions how one can have faith. That is a loaded question that does not necessarily make sense. I could call those that believe in something non-empirical fools, but I would be just as much a fool for not being able to prove otherwise.

    I think religion in general is quite the imbroglio. On one hand, it has kept society from degenerating into amoral chaos; on the other hand, it has fooled society and morphed zealots that birth chaos. Although religion may contradict and be hypocritical, in the end, the people who subscribe to a religion are human. How can a religion be perfected if those following it can never be perfect?


    Take, for example, this post. It is a bit hypocritical to mock threads that are based in religious precepts, only for me to end up posting in one. Ah, well, I suppose this thread will regress into ceaseless quarreling by certain individuals who are seeking a different argument.
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    Master Sorcerer Kay72's Avatar
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    Oh btw Im not the original writer of the post at the top I only quoted a friend of mine who wanted to get responses to his thoughts of religion so please refrain from calling me ignorant or a fool or even idiotic when I am merely quoting another person for responses

    I myself I agree to what Hailfire and Ohild have said any others want to respond I'm interested, so is my friend in seeing what others have to say about the topic it's interesting to look at everyone elses perspectives on religious subjects especially when you aren't looking at it subjectively and biased so you can actually have a feel for what the others feel like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay72 View Post
    Living for religion is the easiest way to repress yourself, especially considering that believers don't like to ponder the idea of their belief being wrong; it's not only uncomfortable to be wrong, but also to consider, you could be wasting your life doing so.

    Life is multifaceted, so focusing on a single unit dulls every other aspect of life. Ironically, most indulge in acts which violate the rules in their belief, but still try to keep up appearances; this hypocritical behavior isn't reflected on though, because, 'you can find forgiveness in your lord'.

    Why does hell exist, if any punishable act can be forgiven by conformation?
    What constitutes straying away from the desired path of God, Nirvana, or the four fold path?
    How does one achieve self actualization, if they are committed to God?
    No one ever asks these questions, because they restrain themselves from the thought of questioning a higher power. Furthermore, we establish restrains on activities under the guise it will mislead us. How can you appreciate something you've never experienced?



    I hope this isn't a thread that could get me banned just for going against religion.......
    I personally switch between being Athiest and Agnostic a lot.. a LOT. But, coming from a heavily Christian/Roman Catholic household I can say that the majority of my family used religion as a form of keeping them positive and happy about life, even if their life currently wasn't. Now it wasn't entirely just that, but I don't really want to start any controversy because I really don't know that much about religion lmao.

    I've never understood indulgences as a way to remove sins; I remember reading about it in like 8th grade history?? Oh god. I personally thought it was just a way for the Roman Catholic Church to receive some monetary gain, please don't attack me lol.

    I believe in an afterlife, not necessarily heaven or hell. Just something after.

    I'd like to think I get reincarnated as a tree, good stuff tbh.
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    Master Sorcerer Tempting's Avatar
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    I feel that religion was created as a way for people to cope with life's greater questions and the unfairness of life, and that it would be easier to believe, especially when told that a higher being exists at a younger age. This does not mean religion is a bad thing, because religion helps to keep people who would otherwise be 'bad people' become good people at the cost of being part of a religious group. I myself do not believe in anything, but I would be able to accept a religion if it were proven true (agnosticism), because I like knowing the truth, even if it is painful. I believe that religion does repress people in a sense, but if it makes them happy and doesn't cause other issues, then I see no problem with it. The majority of religion is good, although it does instigate conflict, such as the religious conflicts in the middle east.

    TL;DR read it.
    "I...It's not empty words I'm after. There was something else I desired all along. Not mutual understanding, friendship, companionship, or anything of the sort. I simply wish to understand... because being in the dark terrifies me. It's an awfully self-indulgement, egoistic, and arrogant wish. ... If it's possible to have a relationship where you're free to burden one another with that repulsive self-gratification...I know that it's out of the question! ... Even so, I want something genuine".

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    Master Sorcerer LadyCyborg's Avatar
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    Religion was pretty much created because people fear death. And if theres any after life.

    No one whos part of a religious group wants to think about the deeper meaning of god/gods because they have no proof of anything.

    (Personally i have to go to a religious camp soon so ill be sure to fire my questions at them so ill see their view of point to all this)

    Personally im agnostic but i divide my beliefs into two different thoughts.

    I dont feel like getting into this topic more atm since it will probably get deleted anyway.

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    Master Sorcerer Sam C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay72 View Post
    Living for religion is the easiest way to repress yourself, especially considering that believers don't like to ponder the idea of their belief being wrong; it's not only uncomfortable to be wrong, but also to consider, you could be wasting your life doing so.

    Life is multifaceted, so focusing on a single unit dulls every other aspect of life. Ironically, most indulge in acts which violate the rules in their belief, but still try to keep up appearances; this hypocritical behavior isn't reflected on though, because, 'you can find forgiveness in your lord'.

    Why does hell exist, if any punishable act can be forgiven by conformation?
    What constitutes straying away from the desired path of God, Nirvana, or the four fold path?
    How does one achieve self actualization, if they are committed to God?
    No one ever asks these questions, because they restrain themselves from the thought of questioning a higher power. Furthermore, we establish restrains on activities under the guise it will mislead us. How can you appreciate something you've never experienced?



    I hope this isn't a thread that could get me banned just for going against religion.......

    Basically, you take a shallow outlook on Religion, which is abundantly clear by labeling followers of one repressed. Believers should not be the ones who should be worried about being wrong alone, both Theist and Atheist have a risk in chosing a belief system: one is not as right as the other. In case you were not aware—Objective reality does not exist—we cannot prove it.

    Religion has brought great influence to the world, it's the reason you see what you have before you. It's man's way to express the unknown—to believe in the phenomenological experiences within their consciousness. Religion has done far more good than bad—especially with Judeo-Christian values—but, religion has done a lot of bad. Secularism has also done the same - as Russia has proven; with an uncountable amount of deaths tolled by Stalin. Religion is not the source of the problem; it's man.

    Every man in the West abides by Religious values for instance - you follow the Laws of your country. So to ridicule Religion is quite hypocritical, since you, me and everyone else follow Religious principles. The Atheist still adheres to religious, moral principals. For instance, in School, you're taught to not fight for vengeance; to turn the other cheek. This is a Christian principal and one the majority of people follow, adhering to a Religion or not. You're too quick to bash the historicity of principals aiding societies into a better place. Though, wasn't easy to get to. You just head straight towards the god-complex and ignore pages upon pages of intellectual wisdom.

    • Why does Hell exist? (I'm guessing this is a presupposition for it being real) Because some people do not ask to be redeemed or have done something sinful and have not asked for forgiveness. I mean, that's pretty basic. We know Hell exists for sure; everyone has experienced it in some form—either with anxiety or depression for instance. It's a real, dark place.
      ------
    • What counts as straying from Divinity? Doing things considered morally Wrong or incorrect by the texts written by the belief system. Easily seen today, murder, thieft, adultery, rape.
      ------
    • Self actualization? By finding meaning in your life. Turning Chaos into habitual Order; Chaos being life's obstacles; Order being them resolved and or controlled. As the Taoist simple indicates with its classical black and white serpents. Chaos is the unknown—Order is the known. People can find meaning with the aid of Religion and many have. Some can do it without.


    Again, you say no one ever asks these questions, you're wrong. You're purporting blind, straw-man claims because of distaste for Religion, small or large. There are many online IRC webpages where "believers" have deep, profound, intellectual long-forum discussions. Such sites as Quora and Reasonable Faith. You just assume straw-mans and think that you're the first person in the world to come up with these "killer" claims. You're not the first, and you're not the last. Your claims are fallacious, and simply a hubris dig at believers—which the Atheists here should point you out on, insofar as to correct you as I have.

    Have you ever thought that maybe it's us that's the problem and not the Religions? Because how come there's nice religious people and bad? If Religion was the cause then everyone would be bad.

    Not to mention that if we lived in a secular society, it would be tyrannical. We'd be subjugated by leaders and their views; like the Pharos of Egypt; claiming to be the "gods"; and Russia in the '30s. We'd have tribes, each with different views based on axioms of their own design. We see that in Politics, look what that has caused. Now ask yourself, what if it was the same the religions? The juxtaposition for the latter would far be worse than the former.
    Last edited by Sam C; 07-11-2018 at 08:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay72 View Post
    Living for religion is the easiest way to repress yourself, especially considering that believers don't like to ponder the idea of their belief being wrong; it's not only uncomfortable to be wrong, but also to consider, you could be wasting your life doing so.

    Life is multifaceted, so focusing on a single unit dulls every other aspect of life. Ironically, most indulge in acts which violate the rules in their belief, but still try to keep up appearances; this hypocritical behavior isn't reflected on though, because, 'you can find forgiveness in your lord'.

    Why does hell exist, if any punishable act can be forgiven by conformation?
    What constitutes straying away from the desired path of God, Nirvana, or the four fold path?
    How does one achieve self actualization, if they are committed to God?
    No one ever asks these questions, because they restrain themselves from the thought of questioning a higher power. Furthermore, we establish restrains on activities under the guise it will mislead us. How can you appreciate something you've never experienced?



    I hope this isn't a thread that could get me banned just for going against religion.......
    Okay, before I write anything, I must clarify that I am agnostic. I am not religious, but I'm not against religions.

    Reading your reply, one can see that you obviously lack knowledge regarding religious activities, belief, and why people confront god. I am by far not the most qualified person to answer you, but I will try to give you an answer regardless.

    Religions are usually based on the afterlife. You choose a religion based on your assumptions regarding what happens after you die. You then follow the religious practices, for you believe your assumptions to be the truth and you believe that only through the practices will you enter the afterlife you desire, however, not all who follow a religion follow it because of their assumptions on afterlife, they might also follow a religion based on their morals. They see good in a religion and thus they follow it.

    Actually, what really made me bother replying was when you stated that everyone following a religion is wrong and is wasting their life; and that most who do that break their own morals. I would really like to see the statistics on that one, for you do not have to be a zealot to be religious. You clearly fail to see the bigger picture. For your information, there are many very intelligent people who follow a religion, because they simply believe in it. You said they are a hundred percent wrong, but have you ever questioned your beliefs?

    The so called rules of a religion are followed, because they're not bad.


    ^^ my vision, one might say, though not all of it

    There is actually a lot more that I could say, but since it is 5 am, I will not, but will possibly edit my message later and fix whatever my mind could not process at the time of writing this.

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    Master Sorcerer walkstick's Avatar
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    Is'nt this kind of topic is illegal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempting View Post
    I feel that religion was created as a way for people to cope with life's greater questions and the unfairness of life, and that it would be easier to believe, especially when told that a higher being exists at a younger age. This does not mean religion is a bad thing, because religion helps to keep people who would otherwise be 'bad people' become good people at the cost of being part of a religious group. I myself do not believe in anything, but I would be able to accept a religion if it were proven true (agnosticism), because I like knowing the truth, even if it is painful. I believe that religion does repress people in a sense, but if it makes them happy and doesn't cause other issues, then I see no problem with it. The majority of religion is good, although it does instigate conflict, such as the religious conflicts in the middle east.

    TL;DR read it.
    Religion was made for power, in the past The King followed order from the Pope. Church and State were basically bonded.
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    Master Sorcerer Kay72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam C View Post
    Basically, you take a shallow outlook on Religion, which is abundantly clear by labeling followers of one repressed. Believers should not be the ones who should be worried about being wrong alone, both Theist and Atheist have a risk in chosing a belief system: one is not as right as the other. In case you were not aware—Objective reality does not exist—we cannot prove it.

    Religion has brought great influence to the world, it's the reason you see what you have before you. It's man's way to express the unknown—to believe in the phenomenological experiences within their consciousness. Religion has done far more good than bad—especially with Judeo-Christian values—but, religion has done a lot of bad. Secularism has also done the same - as Russia has proven; with an uncountable amount of deaths tolled by Stalin. Religion is not the source of the problem; it's man.

    Every man in the West abides by Religious values for instance - you follow the Laws of your country. So to ridicule Religion is quite hypocritical, since you, me and everyone else follow Religious principles. The Atheist still adheres to religious, moral principals. For instance, in School, you're taught to not fight for vengeance; to turn the other cheek. This is a Christian principal and one the majority of people follow, adhering to a Religion or not. You're too quick to bash the historicity of principals aiding societies into a better place. Though, wasn't easy to get to. You just head straight towards the god-complex and ignore pages upon pages of intellectual wisdom.

    • Why does Hell exist? (I'm guessing this is a presupposition for it being real) Because some people do not ask to be redeemed or have done something sinful and have not asked for forgiveness. I mean, that's pretty basic. We know Hell exists for sure; everyone has experienced it in some form—either with anxiety or depression for instance. It's a real, dark place.
      ------
    • What counts as straying from Divinity? Doing things considered morally Wrong or incorrect by the texts written by the belief system. Easily seen today, murder, thieft, adultery, rape.
      ------
    • Self actualization? By finding meaning in your life. Turning Chaos into habitual Order; Chaos being life's obstacles; Order being them resolved and or controlled. As the Taoist simple indicates with its classical black and white serpents. Chaos is the unknown—Order is the known. People can find meaning with the aid of Religion and many have. Some can do it without.


    Again, you say no one ever asks these questions, you're wrong. You're purporting blind, straw-man claims because of distaste for Religion, small or large. There are many online IRC webpages where "believers" have deep, profound, intellectual long-forum discussions. Such sites as Quora and Reasonable Faith. You just assume straw-mans and think that you're the first person in the world to come up with these "killer" claims. You're not the first, and you're not the last. Your claims are fallacious, and simply a hubris dig at believers—which the Atheists here should point you out on, insofar as to correct you as I have.

    Have you ever thought that maybe it's us that's the problem and not the Religions? Because how come there's nice religious people and bad? If Religion was the cause then everyone would be bad.

    Not to mention that if we lived in a secular society, it would be tyrannical. We'd be subjugated by leaders and their views; like the Pharos of Egypt; claiming to be the "gods"; and Russia in the '30s. We'd have tribes, each with different views based on axioms of their own design. We see that in Politics, look what that has caused. Now ask yourself, what if it was the same the religions? The juxtaposition for the latter would far be worse than the former.
    Ummm THESE QUESTIONS WERENT ORIGINALLY COMIMG FROM ME DID U NOT READ MY SECOND REPLY STOP criticizing ME for Simply asking for responses to a friends Thoughts of Religion +__+ but I can agree with you in a sense I dont think religion is the cause of the world's problems I believe the cause is us Man (As in Human b4 the Feminazis and LGBTQYZLMNOP community hates me)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kranken View Post
    Okay, before I write anything, I must clarify that I am agnostic. I am not religious, but I'm not against religions.

    Reading your reply, one can see that you obviously lack knowledge regarding religious activities, belief, and why people confront god. I am by far not the most qualified person to answer you, but I will try to give you an answer regardless.

    Religions are usually based on the afterlife. You choose a religion based on your assumptions regarding what happens after you die. You then follow the religious practices, for you believe your assumptions to be the truth and you believe that only through the practices will you enter the afterlife you desire, however, not all who follow a religion follow it because of their assumptions on afterlife, they might also follow a religion based on their morals. They see good in a religion and thus they follow it.

    Actually, what really made me bother replying was when you stated that everyone following a religion is wrong and is wasting their life; and that most who do that break their own morals. I would really like to see the statistics on that one, for you do not have to be a zealot to be religious. You clearly fail to see the bigger picture. For your information, there are many very intelligent people who follow a religion, because they simply believe in it. You said they are a hundred percent wrong, but have you ever questioned your beliefs?

    The so called rules of a religion are followed, because they're not bad.


    ^^ my vision, one might say, though not all of it

    There is actually a lot more that I could say, but since it is 5 am, I will not, but will possibly edit my message later and fix whatever my mind could not process at the time of writing this.

    Read My second Reply to this thread b4 replying Pls
    -_-
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDoesPBG View Post
    This is why I am going to be a Spiritual Satanist.
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    You hate me bro?




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    Quote Originally Posted by Osoro View Post
    You are so fricking edgy when you talk
    ??

    I was serious about that...
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    My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLr...TgHy7Wu01y_dJA

    The perfect game dosen't exi...

  18. #18
    Master Sorcerer LadyCyborg's Avatar
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    Aug 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDoesPBG View Post
    This is why I am going to be a Spiritual Satanist.
    That has to be the most dumbest thing ive heard in weeks.
    Just stop.

    (Discord: LadyCyborg#7485)
    Quote Originally Posted by FyreX View Post
    Thank you Sherlock, Very cool!

  19. #19
    Master Sorcerer Tempting's Avatar
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    Apr 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manup View Post
    Religion was made for power, in the past The King followed order from the Pope. Church and State were basically bonded.
    Thanks for reminding me of that. I completely forgot about the separation of powers. I guess that point would be added to my list.
    "I...It's not empty words I'm after. There was something else I desired all along. Not mutual understanding, friendship, companionship, or anything of the sort. I simply wish to understand... because being in the dark terrifies me. It's an awfully self-indulgement, egoistic, and arrogant wish. ... If it's possible to have a relationship where you're free to burden one another with that repulsive self-gratification...I know that it's out of the question! ... Even so, I want something genuine".

  20. #20
    Master Sorcerer DavidDoesPBG's Avatar
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    Jan 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyCyborg View Post
    That has to be the most dumbest thing ive heard in weeks.
    Just stop.
    You have your opinion...

    But I have the freedom of choice...
    Started from the bottom, now I dug even deeper!

    My latest video: It's... a music video??

    My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLr...TgHy7Wu01y_dJA

    The perfect game dosen't exi...

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