View Poll Results: Should the new BFG rule stay?

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Thread: [MERGED DISCUSSION] BFG World Anti-Autofarming Measure

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climper View Post
    Let's say owner is selling overpriced item and someone wants to buy it, but there are no other sellers in the world, except this 1 spammer, of course selling it cheaper. The buyer will probably buy it from the spammer, resulting in the owner losing profit.
    Inb4, they're more likely advertising CSNs

  2. #122
    Lesser Wizard Climper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrowStone View Post
    Inb4, they're more likely advertising CSNs
    I'm not getting what you're trying to say. Are you like with me or against me in this situation? My point was that buy+ world owners aren't getting punished, because they don't benefit from spammers. Just like Odric said, spammers are kind of parasites, unlike macro farmers who often work in a symbiosis with BFG owners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Climper View Post
    I'm not getting what you're trying to say. Are you like with me or against me in this situation? My point was that buy+ world owners aren't getting punished, because they don't benefit from spammers. Just like Odric said, spammers are kind of parasites, unlike macro farmers who often work in a symbiosis with BFG owners.
    Do we really benefit from autofarmers? No. All we want is our farmables broken.

  4. #124
    Lesser Wizard Climper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrowStone View Post
    Do we really benefit from autofarmers? No. All we want is our farmables broken.
    Player uses macro to farm your farmables.
    As a result you get profit seeds.

    Yes, you could change the autofarmer to a normal player, who uses fingers to break. I know, the result would be the same, you profiting the exact same amount of seeds. But as long as there's an autofarmer farming your farmables, you're benefiting from him.
    Last edited by Climper; 06-03-2019 at 06:00 PM. Reason: typo

  5. #125
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    Wait, when did they implement this rule in which the owner of the bfg would be punished along with the autofarmers? I always left my bfg and just came to check in every 15 mins, and even that was just to switch magplant. This is news to me
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  6. #126
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    So the same solution is just nuke the world? but that literally does nothing to the autofarmer, it literally has no negative effect for them

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odric View Post
    Hey all - hope you're enjoying your day/evening so far!

    I'd like to weigh in and explain things in a bit more depth, as there seems to be a very very big misunderstanding on how BFGs work. Before I get started though, just a gentle reminder that the best way to give your opinion is in a positive, constructive tone.

    Let's analyze it this way:

    You own a business and your employee is doing something illegal.

    You own a BFG and a player is using an auto-farm program.

    In both cases, as the owner, you are liable for your worker's actions. If your workers are doing something illegal and you're gaining profit from it, you ARE held responsible.

    "But Odric, I can't be there 24/7 to make sure there are no auto-farmers."

    We don't expect you to be online 24/7! You have the option to boot everybody and remove them from your lock before you leave for the day/night. If you can't control your own BFG, you shouldn't own one. Most businesses close overnight while the boss is gone, or they will have Managers available who can keep everything in check.

    TL;DR - BFGs are a form of business, as you gain profit from your workers. You are responsible for who you give WL access to.

    In other words - this is not our attempt at shutting down BFGs. It's our attempt at preventing players from gaining an unfair advantage through illegal means. Does that mean that BFG owners will need to be more vigilant? Absolutely. But in the long run, this will cut down on auto-farmers and help keep the economy stabilized.

    If you have any questions about this, make sure you keep it positive and constructive! I will answer to the best of my abilities.

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    Okay, let me start off by saying I used to do BFG’s months ago, I would run 2 farms a day every day. These two farms would take a little over an hour of my time to break the trees and replant them when the blocks are done making.

    Here is a render of one of these worlds:
    Name:  NOODLEBFG1.png
Views: 124
Size:  246.5 KB

    If you notice, this world is a farm and break area all in one. At the bottom there is a public huge lock for everyone to break so I don’t have to babysit my farm for four hours. I would broadcast once at the start and a couple hours later come back and find all the blocks are broken.

    Now here are the issues: how am I supposed to be in multiple worlds at the same time literally all the time in order to ensure there are no autofsrmers? That is literally impossible and completely unfair to me, I am completely against autofarmer and ban them when I see them but it should not be my responsibility to cycle through my worlds constantly so that I don’t get punished.

    This also brings up another issue: people can easily hire others to autofarmer in peoples worlds to try and get them banned. This is the same exact thing as spammers inside of trade worlds, to quote what you guys have said in the past about that, “we only ban the accounts who are spamming and the accounts linked to those, and we only nuke the worlds if they are of an illegal manner” this is the same exact thing. You don’t ban world owners for having spammers in their worlds because people can hire spammers to try and get them banned, how is hiring autofarmers to do the same thing any different?

    LET ME BE CLEAR HERE: I do not 'rent' out rooms, I simply have a break area at the bottom that anyone can visit and break for free in. I send out a broadcast and then i come back a couple hours later to replant my seeds.

    Also, how are we supposed to determine who is an autofarmer is some cases? The obvious ones are the level 2-10 no clothes except a pickaxe on a guest account, but if some level 40 dude comes in who is in a guild and has a full set walks in, how do I know if he is an autofarmer or not? Am I supposed to go through both of my worlds at the same time and simultaneously talk to each and every person there to ensure they are t autofarmers? That’s a complete joke, especially with this games language barriers.


    I somewhat get your reasoning for implementing this rule, but I absolutely hate that you chose the “a few bad apples ruined the bunch” excuse to implement this rule because you guys still cannot find a fix for autofarmers after over a year of this issue. God forbid you set up an anti-cheat system that checks if the same action/string of actions is being repeated in the same frames in order to catch macros.

    Anyways, this system has too many flaws and completely contradicts your stance on spammers in worlds, and is going to kill bfg worlds in the end. People who autofarmer will just simply unban themselves and go on another account and do it again, BFG owners will have thousands of hours of playtime lost to nothing because of this extremely strict and unfairness rule.


    Please respond to each and every point here just so they are clarified. It really does suck that these rules are being made by community managers who have only been around for a year or so, without taking any account of those of us within the community who have been here for years and have much more past experience with these sorts of things in game. There is a large communication imbalance within this community where the developers refuse to take community consensuses before dishing out something as extreme as this and that is what a lot of people are tired of.
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  8. #128
    Master Sorcerer Malware's Avatar
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    Default Oof, Update Discussion flooded with BFG threads...time to add mine...

    So, I read some(not all, those things are appearing like crazy, I can't read em all) threads about this whole situation.

    The main problem seems to be:
    1)I can't monitor my world 24/7
    2)What about BUY+ worlds?

    I agree with basically what everyone is saying, it is "unfair" in a way. Lets break it down into every possible situation and see why.



    So, with the first part. Monitoring your world. It is impossible. For several reasons:
    1) Your busy. Often I see BFG owners harvesting more trees or restocking the mags. It is very hard to keep track of what everyone is doing. Even if tou aren't working on the BFG, it would be better to spend your time trying to sell an item, or just(like the game is meant for) socializing. BFGs last a long time, thus take a long portion of your day to do if you did watch them.
    2) It partly defeats the point of a BFG. BFGs are meant to be, more or less, work-free. Yes, you need to harvest the trees and put the blocks into the MagPlant, but thats mostly it. The point of BFGs is to have your farmables farmed. If you spend your time monitoring the people farming, it is about as boring(actually more) than farming in itself.
    3) You litterally CAN NOT monitor your world. Ok, lets forget the fact that you have a life(hopefully) and DO monitor your world. Well, great, cause you can't even zoom out that far. So if you want to monitor people, you must keep running in a circle(assuming you have a bigger BFG) to patrol. You must now spend time looking closely to see if anyone is auto farming. This makes every "rotation"/ when you finish inspecting everyone once take (assuming theres 30 people farming) about 5 minutes if you talk to them for 10 seconds each(to see if they respond). I don't know how fast the system takes to ban someone, but that means if someone started immediately auto farming in that world, it would take you 5 minuted to get back to them.
    This doesn't even take into account if something happens IRL, like getting some water or food). What? You expect BFG owners to close down their whole BFG for 2 minutes so they can do whatever they need to IRL? HECK, its probably faster just getting water than closing down the BFG for that small amount of time( ig you walked up to everyone, taking 4 seconds esch to say its temp. Closed, then pulling everyone back in).
    4) It is hard to get admins, and even if you have one, it makes it mathematically more inefficient. Getting admins to help monitor the world either when you are or not online, it is inefficient.
    4a) If you were online, having another admin with you to monitor the world, it would waste two people's time instead of one.(kinda like twice the work to still, in the end, get the same amount of seeds gotten by the farmers in the BFG).
    4b) If the owner is offline and the admin is controlling everything, the same problem arises of needing more help.
    4c) Then add the fact that finding an admin, in addition, a trusted one. Well...thats pretty much impossible.
    5) Often times, autofarmers DO watch whats going on, they are just to lazy to tap. So, even if you try to catch them, they WILL respond to you and just continue auto farming.



    Ok, still here? Nice. Lets address the second issue.
    Based off the replies I saw mods give, I'm assuming the rule goes a bit like "You let auto farmers in, but spammers come no matter what."
    Overall, punishing BFG owners are wrong, but because you are doing it, it is unfair to not including BUY+ world owners.
    The arguements I'll be making will be just fighting what the mods say, not what I believe.


    1) "It is the owner and admin's job to ban them". Why is this a double standard for BFGs to BUY+ worlds? Idk. But I'm here to make the arguement that unlike what I saw Ordic say about it being impossible to monitor the chat for spammers, that it is possible. On my knowledge, it is VERY FREAKIN CLEAR when a spammer is around. THEY SPAM. They litterally position themselves in a visible place to attract the most attention. If anything, IT IS EASIER to spam a spammer than an autofarmer.
    2) "You invite the auto farmers, spammers are unwanted". This is really just not true. BFG owners don't go out of their eay to grt autofarmers, do they? The answer is no. Once again, a double standard is here. Spammers TARGET BUY+ worlds. They also goto SBs, but besides if that, they go nowhere else.

    A BFG attracts autofarmers.
    A BUY+ world attracts spammer.

    That is basically how it works. If BFGs "invite" autofarmers, then the same is being done with BUY+ worlds inviting spammers. They don't necessarily invite them, but auto farmers/spammers are attracted to those worlds.


    3) Ok, so you know that "shop" example these mods keep on giving? No? Ima briefly give their example.

    "Imagine your a shop keeper. A worker does something illegal. You should be accountable for not preventing this. It doesn't matter whether you did it, it is still illegal and you didn't stop it.

    The same could be said with having auto farmers in your world. They did something illegal, you pay for it too."



    Thats a bad comparison. Its more like a worker WORKS for you and you pay them to manage the store and stuff. That is more like an example you would give if an admin did something illegal. This isn't the case, though.

    Imagine the autofarmers as customers instead. Now, the illegal action they do is shoplift. Great, they did sometime illegal, now your arrested cause THEY shop lifted.








    Overall this is pretty unfair, I'm curious how mods will reply to this one.
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  9. #129
    Master Sorcerer HugeLock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malware View Post
    So, I read some(not all, those things are appearing like crazy, I can't read em all) threads about this whole situation.

    The main problem seems to be:
    1)I can't monitor my world 24/7
    2)What about BUY+ worlds?

    I agree with basically what everyone is saying, it is "unfair" in a way. Lets break it down into every possible situation and see why.



    So, with the first part. Monitoring your world. It is impossible. For several reasons:
    1) Your busy. Often I see BFG owners harvesting more trees or restocking the mags. It is very hard to keep track of what everyone is doing. Even if tou aren't working on the BFG, it would be better to spend your time trying to sell an item, or just(like the game is meant for) socializing. BFGs last a long time, thus take a long portion of your day to do if you did watch them.
    2) It partly defeats the point of a BFG. BFGs are meant to be, more or less, work-free. Yes, you need to harvest the trees and put the blocks into the MagPlant, but thats mostly it. The point of BFGs is to have your farmables farmed. If you spend your time monitoring the people farming, it is about as boring(actually more) than farming in itself.
    3) You litterally CAN NOT monitor your world. Ok, lets forget the fact that you have a life(hopefully) and DO monitor your world. Well, great, cause you can't even zoom out that far. So if you want to monitor people, you must keep running in a circle(assuming you have a bigger BFG) to patrol. You must now spend time looking closely to see if anyone is auto farming. This makes every "rotation"/ when you finish inspecting everyone once take (assuming theres 30 people farming) about 5 minutes if you talk to them for 10 seconds each(to see if they respond). I don't know how fast the system takes to ban someone, but that means if someone started immediately auto farming in that world, it would take you 5 minuted to get back to them.
    This doesn't even take into account if something happens IRL, like getting some water or food). What? You expect BFG owners to close down their whole BFG for 2 minutes so they can do whatever they need to IRL? HECK, its probably faster just getting water than closing down the BFG for that small amount of time( ig you walked up to everyone, taking 4 seconds esch to say its temp. Closed, then pulling everyone back in).
    4) It is hard to get admins, and even if you have one, it makes it mathematically more inefficient. Getting admins to help monitor the world either when you are or not online, it is inefficient.
    4a) If you were online, having another admin with you to monitor the world, it would waste two people's time instead of one.(kinda like twice the work to still, in the end, get the same amount of seeds gotten by the farmers in the BFG).
    4b) If the owner is offline and the admin is controlling everything, the same problem arises of needing more help.
    4c) Then add the fact that finding an admin, in addition, a trusted one. Well...thats pretty much impossible.





    Ok, still here? Nice. Lets address the second issue.
    Based off the replies I saw mods give, I'm assuming the rule goes a bit like "You let auto farmers in, but spammers come no matter what."
    Overall, punishing BFG owners are wrong, but because you are doing it, it is unfair to not including BUY+ world owners.
    The arguements I'll be making will be just fighting what the mods say, not what I believe.


    1) "It is the owner and admin's job to ban them". Why is this a double standard for BFGs to BUY+ worlds? Idk. But I'm here to make the arguement that unlike what I saw Ordic say about it being impossible to monitor the chat for spammers, that it is possible. On my knowledge, it is VERY FREAKIN CLEAR when a spammer is around. THEY SPAM. They litterally position themselves in a visible place to attract the most attention. If anything, IT IS EASIER to spam a spammer than an autofarmer.
    2) "You invite the auto farmers, spammers are unwanted". This is really just not true. BFG owners don't go out of their eay to grt autofarmers, do they? The answer is no. Once again, a double standard is here. Spammers TARGET BUY+ worlds. They also goto SBs, but besides if that, they go nowhere else.

    A BFG attracts autofarmers.
    A BUY+ world attracts spammer.

    That is basically how it works. If BFGs "invite" autofarmers, then the same is being done with BUY+ worlds inviting spammers. They don't necessarily invite them, but auto farmers/spammers are attracted to those worlds.


    3) Ok, so you know that "shop" example these mods keep on giving? No? Ima briefly give their example.

    "Imagine your a shop keeper. A worker does something illegal. You should be accountable for not preventing this. It doesn't matter whether you did it, it is still illegal and you didn't stop it.

    The same could be said with having auto farmers in your world. They did something illegal, you pay for it too."



    Thats a bad comparison. Its more like a worker WORKS for you and you pay them to manage the store and stuff. That is more like an example you would give if an admin did something illegal. This isn't the case, though.

    Imagine the autofarmers as customers instead. Now, the illegal action they do is shoplift. Great, they did sometime illegal, now your arrested cause THEY shop lifted.








    Overall this is pretty unfair, I'm curious how mods will reply to this one.
    At least the shop keeper can do a background check and a contract with the person he/she employs.
    In Growtopia, that's not possible.


    Autofarmers benefit from free bfg worlds, and they get nuked.
    Spammers benefit from BUY+ worlds and they don't.
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  10. #130
    Master Sorcerer NoTrollGaming's Avatar
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    Well said especially with that example at the end, Ubisoft's reasoning is so flawed

    Also they won't reply, just merge it in with the rest and close it off


    EDIT: Already merged

  11. #131
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    Default BFG dramma

    Yooooo ! My thread got fed up cuz of an autosave RIP.

    really wanna kill myself.

    Anyways what i was saying is that :

    I only see neko rlying wich means 1- they dont go in this dramma 2- they got a email abou shutting their mouth.

    AAAAAAND neko is scared pf closing the threads why shouldnt you be scared of keeping up the rule?

    Also, its like the civilwar in France that includes advantaging the rich people even MORE
    and helping/supporting LESS the poor people.
    Why should we be scared loosing our mags for 30days for 15mins and rich people LITERALLY collecting wls after they slept isnt that dumb?

    Forgot what else was here but im really mad i couldnt resotre it.

    No harm in this drama/mods but really, grow up and learn from others mistakes sto prevent your decaying comunity to go even faster.

  12. #132
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    This is clearly why they ask the world owner to monitoring autofarmers because their system cant catch it all.

  13. #133
    Master Sorcerer HugeLock's Avatar
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    Literally this: 1 step in the good direction, 2 steps in the opposite direction a few weeks later..
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  14. #134
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    Why cant a bfg category be made on the wl so our worlds can be actively checked by mods & maybe change the rate system if it is set as the bfg category so worlds can be raised up the category if they have active bots in them.

    It shouldn't be up to the owner when we have other things to do, the magplant only holds 5000 it needs to be refilled and people also run other worlds too making it harder to check. Bfgs are supposed to make it easy for the owner to get seeds maybe even when they are AFK but now we all have to sit here and watch so that we dont get punished for someone else's actions.

    Maybe also make a jammer or something so people aren't allowed to punch as fast. You guys need to add new features not new punishments especially for those who aren't even doing wrong!

    Also nekorei if you want us to help tackle autofarmers with you allow us to perma ban them from our worlds! What does 1 hour do. And also allow us to put a reason for permanent ban so that when they enter other worlds under the bfg category their name can show red or they can have an icon next to their name suggesting to the owner they have been perma banned from another bfg for autofarming!
    Last edited by Ganxta; 06-03-2019 at 07:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganxta View Post
    Why cant a bfg category be made on the wl so our worlds can be actively checked by mods & maybe change the rate system if it is set as the bfg category so worlds can be raised up the category if they have active bots in them.

    It shouldn't be up to the owner when we have other things to do, the magplant only holds 5000 it needs to be refilled and people also run other worlds too making it harder to check. Bfgs are supposed to make it easy for the owner to get seeds maybe even when they are AFK but now we all have to sit here and watch so that we dont get punished for someone else's actions.

    Maybe also make a jammer or something so people aren't allowed to punch as fast. You guys need to add new features not new punishments especially for those who aren't even doing wrong!
    Oooor, if a world category is set to BFG, owner will use /bfgmode on which will make are you human popup each 5 mins to every user

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrowStone View Post
    Oooor, if a world category is set to BFG, owner will use /bfgmode on which will make are you human popup each 5 mins to every user
    Yes that would be very useful, if the world was set to bfg that could automatically appear 3very so often and those who dont respond within a certain amount of time get kicked/banned

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by HugeLock View Post
    Literally this: 1 step in the good direction, 2 steps in the opposite direction a few weeks later..
    That's very well summarized.
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  18. #138
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    Default Should the new BFG rule stay?

    There is a new controversial rule concerning auto farming and BFGs. Many are divided on this rule, I would like to see how the community stands. Please vote in the poll above to show your opinion concerning this new rule.

    More info on new rule: https://www.growtopiagame.com/forums...nishment-Rules
    IGN: SNOWYFOX

  19. #139
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    Everyone except minimods are going to vote for keeping it

  20. #140
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    Of course it should stay



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