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Thread: [DEBATE] Punishment system requires a revamp.

  1. #21
    Master Sorcerer Noodle905's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle905 View Post
    Here’s a cool story of something that happened yesterday:

    Someone sb’d in the world CHILDAUCTION (which was previously approved for use by a mod as long as nothing sexual or racist happened in the world) while the owner and admin were offline. Restford came in for 1 second and then instantly nuked the world.

    Low and behold, both the owner and admin in that world were permanently suspended for something that was not the fault of anyone with access? I thought that worlds and their owners could only be punished for inside actions if they are caused by the owner/admin.

    They both emailed support and sure enough, they get a copy paste reply by RESTFORD herself saying they were in trouble for the happenings of a sexual world. This is despite the fact that the world got nuked 30 seconds after it was SB’d in so nothing could have happened. And the fact that they were not even online at the time.

    It may just be me, but the new Canadian support teams don’t really seem to understand how to properly punish players whatsoever, and spend a good amount of time taping worlds full of players for 10 hours and also signing boards in scam worlds like BUYGALLEK.

    It should also be said that the two suspended members were loved in the community especially on forums Aquarious and ankha (aka punchy)

    It truest is a disgrace and they should be unbanned immediately, as these two members have done more for the community (albeit years ago) through hosting major events on forums than the Canadian support team ever has.

    I don’t want to hear “blah blah blah have them contact support” they already had, and the same personal that wrongfully suspended them for something that wasn’t illegal or their fault replied to them.
    Bumping up post so this gains exposure and gets fixed.
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  2. #22
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    As an old player, I do believe that the punishment system has to be remade.

    Looking through the replies made by the other people on this thread, indeed there are plenty of misleading cases regarding support issues and the game itself - Moderator mistakes and not only automated replies but also short and simple yet informal replies from the well-respected support specialists themselves.

    I haven't personally gotten any replies regarding my issue with Growtopia from the support yet, but judging from the fact that plenty of players getting them, I believe that it is indeed a somewhat serious matter to be taken care of.

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  3. #23
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    Default Agree!!! Best strategy work long-short than short-long ;)

    Any business knows that time is money, but still a lot of time is wasted because too little time is put into long-term strategies.

    So working short-long is what's happening here, if the routines, rules and length of a ban aren't clear for neither players nor moderators it will result in a lot of complaints and e-mails to support. Meaning little time has been invested in setting upp this routines (short) and a lot of time is needed to handle all complaints. And nobody is happy...

    Working long-short is allways the best strategy and especially important when there is "no time". Do invest time on these great feedback you are getting and set up the routines and you will see how in the end it will save time for all! And most important of all happier players and happier mods

    Cheers!

  4. #24
    Master Sorcerer ZStepXD's Avatar
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    Yes, 100% agree.

    Mods don't seem to care about the context in most cases and they do seem to be more harsh on players who haven't always been the most perfect angels in the community...............
    Thinking about you.

  5. #25
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    Bump
    This needs more attention
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkenshin21 View Post
    Any business knows that time is money, but still a lot of time is wasted because too little time is put into long-term strategies.

    So working short-long is what's happening here, if the routines, rules and length of a ban aren't clear for neither players nor moderators it will result in a lot of complaints and e-mails to support. Meaning little time has been invested in setting upp this routines (short) and a lot of time is needed to handle all complaints. And nobody is happy...

    Working long-short is allways the best strategy and especially important when there is "no time". Do invest time on these great feedback you are getting and set up the routines and you will see how in the end it will save time for all! And most important of all happier players and happier mods

    Cheers!
    Agree. Why one mod or any ubisofts worker can't just use one day for writing ban rules, then send it for all mods and post in here. Then we all know what rule break gives what. Example:
    Auto=perma
    Sexual speak, even jokes like buy nudes=perma
    Drop game=60
    donate game=idk, i think 60
    racist speak or action=perma
    and so on. And sure, we need some other bans than perma and 60 day. 360 days sounds actually good. In one year, they have time to think how to behave next time when they get back in game. Or why not even 730 days and then get back. Perma only if after all these warnings someone auto farm or do something super bad. And some players are kids, so in 2 years, they grow much and they could be actually good players when they come back after 2y.
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  7. #27

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    it's simple: if you have rules, you have to write a punishment next to each rule, otherwise it's a free for all where mods have all the guns. you can be banned tomorrow for selling a rock seed for 1 world lock and it'll technically be reasonable.

    except that here not only are there no punishments, the rules themselves are all over the place and are mostly unclear. there are a bunch of entries in /rules that don't need to be there simply because there are other entries that fully imply them. this just goes to show that there's not much order or, frankly, thought put into this

    now give me a few years while i try and name a field of the game where this lack of thought isn't present

  8. #28
    Master Sorcerer Noodle905's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle905 View Post
    Here’s a cool story of something that happened yesterday:

    Someone sb’d in the world CHILDAUCTION (which was previously approved for use by a mod as long as nothing sexual or racist happened in the world) while the owner and admin were offline. Restford came in for 1 second and then instantly nuked the world.

    Low and behold, both the owner and admin in that world were permanently suspended for something that was not the fault of anyone with access? I thought that worlds and their owners could only be punished for inside actions if they are caused by the owner/admin.

    They both emailed support and sure enough, they get a copy paste reply by RESTFORD herself saying they were in trouble for the happenings of a sexual world. This is despite the fact that the world got nuked 30 seconds after it was SB’d in so nothing could have happened. And the fact that they were not even online at the time.

    It may just be me, but the new Canadian support teams don’t really seem to understand how to properly punish players whatsoever, and spend a good amount of time taping worlds full of players for 10 hours and also signing boards in scam worlds like BUYGALLEK.

    It should also be said that the two suspended members were loved in the community especially on forums Aquarious and ankha (aka punchy)

    It truest is a disgrace and they should be unbanned immediately, as these two members have done more for the community (albeit years ago) through hosting major events on forums than the Canadian support team ever has.

    I don’t want to hear “blah blah blah have them contact support” they already had, and the same personal that wrongfully suspended them for something that wasn’t illegal or their fault replied to them.
    Bumping this up again, not going quiet till this unjust action is look at and fixed.
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  9. #29
    Master Sorcerer Viju's Avatar
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    Without a basis for moderators to use and letting them choose how lengthy it is, it would be unfair to those who did the same thing but got a lengthier punishment just because another mod handled the case. I agree that they should revamp the punishment system to justify and have a fair basis when banning people. Especially to new support staff who literally just started playing the game and immediately gets a mod status - they should be trained and educated thoroughly before they start moderating - like know the rules and how lengthy the bans should be.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viju View Post
    Without a basis for moderators to use and letting them choose how lengthy it is, it would be unfair to those who did the same thing but got a lengthier punishment just because another mod handled the case. I agree that they should revamp the punishment system to justify and have a fair basis when banning people. Especially to new support staff who literally just started playing the game and immediately gets a mod status - they should be trained and educated thoroughly before they start moderating - like know the rules and how lengthy the bans should be.
    I stand my points with you. I think that ALL moderators should choose the duration of a punishment equally. Punishment durations should be based on which rules they break and if they have a previous record of a similar offence, not based on which moderator is handling the case. Great job Viju.
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  11. #31
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    This needs attention
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  12. #32
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    I think there should be definitive punishments laid out.

    Hosting any from of scam game (casino, drop games): 60 day ban.
    Hosting another one (2nd offense): 240 day ban.
    Hosting a third one (3rd offense): 730 day ban.
    Hosting anymore scams: Suspension.

    Harassing players: 3 day tape.
    Harassing payers with alts: 3 day ban.
    Harassing players again: 20 day ban.
    Harassing players anymore: 60 day ban.

    Autofarming: 20 day ban.
    Autofarming twice: 60 day ban.
    Autofarming thrice: 150 day ban.
    Autofarming anymore after that: 360 day ban.

    Being rude in SBs: 7 days without megaphone.
    Being rude in SBs twice: 20 days without megaphone.
    Being rude in SBs thrice: 100 days without megaphone.
    Anymore after that: 250 days without megaphone.

    Advertising a scam: 7 day curse.
    Advertising a scam twice: 7 day ban.
    Advertising a scam thrice: 30 day ban.
    Anymore after that: 100 day ban.

    Playing any form of scam game: 3 day curse.
    Playing another: 5 day curse.
    Playing a third one: 7 day curse.
    Playing a fourth one: 7 day tape + curse.
    Playing a fifth one: 20 day tape + curse.
    Any after that: 25 day ban each.

    Selling items/accounts for cash: Suspension.

    Cussing at a Moderator: 7 day tape.
    Cussing at a Moderator AGAIN: 7 day ban.
    Cussing at a Moderator a third time: 30 day ban.
    Cussing at a Moderator a fourth time: 60 day ban.
    Anymore after that: Suspension.

    Evading ban: original sentence + 30 days.
    Evading a ban twice: original sentence + 100 days.
    Anymore after that: Suspension.
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  13. #33
    Master Sorcerer Chopin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 72ndSpirit View Post
    I think there should be definitive punishments laid out.

    Hosting any from of scam game (casino, drop games): 60 day ban.
    Hosting another one (2nd offense): 240 day ban.
    Hosting a third one (3rd offense): 730 day ban.
    Hosting anymore scams: Suspension.

    Harassing players: 3 day tape.
    Harassing payers with alts: 3 day ban.
    Harassing players again: 20 day ban.
    Harassing players anymore: 60 day ban.

    Autofarming: 20 day ban.
    Autofarming twice: 60 day ban.
    Autofarming thrice: 150 day ban.
    Autofarming anymore after that: 360 day ban.

    Being rude in SBs: 7 days without megaphone.
    Being rude in SBs twice: 20 days without megaphone.
    Being rude in SBs thrice: 100 days without megaphone.
    Anymore after that: 250 days without megaphone.

    Advertising a scam: 7 day curse.
    Advertising a scam twice: 7 day ban.
    Advertising a scam thrice: 30 day ban.
    Anymore after that: 100 day ban.

    Playing any form of scam game: 3 day curse.
    Playing another: 5 day curse.
    Playing a third one: 7 day curse.
    Playing a fourth one: 7 day tape + curse.
    Playing a fifth one: 20 day tape + curse.
    Any after that: 25 day ban each.

    Selling items/accounts for cash: Suspension.

    Cussing at a Moderator: 7 day tape.
    Cussing at a Moderator AGAIN: 7 day ban.
    Cussing at a Moderator a third time: 30 day ban.
    Cussing at a Moderator a fourth time: 60 day ban.
    Anymore after that: Suspension.

    Evading ban: original sentence + 30 days.
    Evading a ban twice: original sentence + 100 days.
    Anymore after that: Suspension.
    I would agree but because the length of the ban is also affected by the severity of the offense (in one way or another) the length of the ban should be set by the moderator punishing the individual

    Kind of confusing but you get what I mean.

    And I believe ban evasion is against their EULA so it would be a suspension the first time you do it.
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    I have read through Ubisoft's ToS and EULA, feel free to ask any questions!

  14. #34
    Master Sorcerer Chopin's Avatar
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    The length of the ban can be affected by the severity of the offense so there shouldn't be a set punishment. (There should, however, be a reference for the moderators to refer to.)
    Automated Emails are also Necessary. The Growtopia support team receives probably thousands of emails every day and there is no way that Ubisoft had enough manpower to reply to all those. (Alot are probably emails like "I got scammed refund plez") But I do believe that moderators should not have access to the support emails.
    Some moderators also lack "critical thinking". To define, critical thinking means the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgement. An example would be: You are a cop and you see someone throw a banana peel on the floor. There is a sign that says no littering closeby with the fine underneath. You look at incidents similar to this that happened in the past and see that someone threw a candy wrapper on the ground and got fined, but another person poured coffee on the floor but didn't get fined. The factors you will have to consider in this particular incident is: Biodegradability, liquids and solids and intention. So, would you fine the guy for throwing the banana peel on the floor or not? The answer would be yes because in a previous incident a man threw a candy wrapper on the floor and that candy wrapper is a solid, the banana peel is also a solid so therefore you should fine him. Moderators like Ms. Messup and Ms.Wrencheseverywhere probably lack this ability and or intelligence. ( Why the hell would you drop wrenches everywhere ) I would also suggest that moderators lose the ability to drop summoned items ( except for fire and ice wands ) as we can see Ms. Wrencheseverywhere has abused this and likely disrupted the economy as a whole. Devs should NEVER touch the economy.

    Sorry for the long post and slightly off topic example

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Winwood View Post
    I stand my points with you. I think that ALL moderators should choose the duration of a punishment equally. Punishment durations should be based on which rules they break and if they have a previous record of a similar offence, not based on which moderator is handling the case. Great job Viju.
    I disagree, punishments SHOULD NOT be equal. Every case is different and not everyone acts the same. The length of the punishment is also affected by the severity of the incident and whether or not it breaks the ToS/EULA/Growtopian Code.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Viju View Post
    Without a basis for moderators to use and letting them choose how lengthy it is, it would be unfair to those who did the same thing but got a lengthier punishment just because another mod handled the case. I agree that they should revamp the punishment system to justify and have a fair basis when banning people. Especially to new support staff who literally just started playing the game and immediately gets a mod status - they should be trained and educated thoroughly before they start moderating - like know the rules and how lengthy the bans should be.
    Instead of learning how lengthy the ban should be, I suggest that they have a reference for the most common incidents. As I said in my previous posts, the length of the punishments also depend on the severity and whether or not it breaks Ubisoft's ToS and EULA so mods should be familiar with critical thinking and find different approaches to each incident.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueBounty View Post
    it's simple: if you have rules, you have to write a punishment next to each rule, otherwise it's a free for all where mods have all the guns. you can be banned tomorrow for selling a rock seed for 1 world lock and it'll technically be reasonable.

    except that here not only are there no punishments, the rules themselves are all over the place and are mostly unclear. there are a bunch of entries in /rules that don't need to be there simply because there are other entries that fully imply them. this just goes to show that there's not much order or, frankly, thought put into this

    now give me a few years while i try and name a field of the game where this lack of thought isn't present
    I agree that there should be a reference for both the average player and the moderator. However, I disagree that each case be treated according to the reference. Each case is different and depending on the severity the mod should be able to choose an appropriate length.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by QueenChloe View Post
    Agree. Why one mod or any ubisofts worker can't just use one day for writing ban rules, then send it for all mods and post in here. Then we all know what rule break gives what. Example:
    Auto=perma
    Sexual speak, even jokes like buy nudes=perma
    Drop game=60
    donate game=idk, i think 60
    racist speak or action=perma
    and so on. And sure, we need some other bans than perma and 60 day. 360 days sounds actually good. In one year, they have time to think how to behave next time when they get back in game. Or why not even 730 days and then get back. Perma only if after all these warnings someone auto farm or do something super bad. And some players are kids, so in 2 years, they grow much and they could be actually good players when they come back after 2y.
    As i said in my previous posts, each case is different and mods should have the ability and power to select a time based on but not following the reference punishments.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Monrath View Post
    Funny how most problems arose when they first came, we probably had many mod oopsies this month than the previous years.. I don't really know where to even begin

    They seem to be giving punishment lengthes depending on their moods, sometimes they are either too strict or too slack. Really depends on how suck up the person getting the punishment is to the mods instead of how severe the action is. And I wouldn't be surprised if everyone who posted here got stalked and banned for the tiniest of actions.

    Also there seems to be a lack of miscommunication between mods. Considering that the mods have different opinions, thus us players get confused as we could get suddenly banned from something that another mod approved, but another one didn't. Just take a look on what happened yesterday. If Cooperation occurred then those valuable players won't get banned from yesterday event.

    And boy let's not talk about support, in addition to the excess automated messages and the untrained Canadian support team. Some mods who can ban you in-game are also the ones who view support messages, meaning that if you got banned unjustly by a mod who also works as support, don't expect much as your ticket could get dismissed... This is a disaster as you couldn't get someone else involved.

    I don't know who thought giving mod powers to the new support team is a good idea. Support should never do the mods work.

    A revamp is seriously required and mod investigations should occur. Losing thousands of hours of work unjustly of from the smallest things is seriously not fun.
    I agree that punishments should not be given out depending on the moderator's moods. But I also don't think punishment length should be the same for every case as that would be unfair. I would also propose that moderators not have the ability to reply to the support emails as that would cause bias.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJackerino View Post
    This. I wholeheartedly agree with this. Not only could they end up being too lengthy, but also unfair.

    They definitely need a completely straightforward guideline for punishments. This will prevent a lot of problems from occurring.

    With all due respect to our Canadian Support team, but some if not all of them need more experience and training. Contradictions keep on happening, which confuses the players. There should be consistency.

    Hopefully this will be taken into consideration.
    I don't think ban time should be consistent as every case is different but I do agree that some mods need critical thinking training.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by [Rumors] View Post
    No, its fair, the fact that a mod can ban someone with a clean record that's been playing for 6 years for 730d just for saying N*gger is odiously 100% reasonable because you know being racist irl results in a life sentence too....





    THIS IS A GODDAM JOKE if someone brainless couldn't tell alrdy
    I agree that some punishments could be too harsh as some mods have insufficient training but you also need to consider the amount of cases each moderator has to deal with everyday. It's like being a lawyer but constantly being harassed and spammed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Techy View Post
    A suspension for simply advertising an illegal activity that they do no conduct feels way too hefty. If they want longer punishments, make them 120-365 days long. Growtopia has grown a lot since the original punishment system was put in place, and they might have not bothered with longer punishments as they might've not known the game would've survived that long (hence it would jump from like 60~ days to 730 days (aka a suspension)).

    Longer punishments would keep players away from the game enough to rethink their actions but would also give willing players to return so that their accounts do not become obsolete. Worlds become deserted with valuable and useful names that may affect the future negatively - this or change the decay system so that admins are negated on locks or, at least, notify the player of the names of the admins so that they can be contacted instead of "Someone with access played X days ago", because that is useless information).
    I believe that most of the people who advertise illegal activities are the owners / admins of that activity so I believe suspension is a good way to get rid of them. I've also stumbled across several clickbait SB's that promise free tokens and dls if you watch XXX on YouTube. Please note that this violates Ubisoft's ToS s.3.3 (1) and can result in a suspension.
    To thine own self be true,
    and it must follow,
    as the night the day,
    thou canst not then be false to any man.


    I have read through Ubisoft's ToS and EULA, feel free to ask any questions!

  15. #35
    Master Sorcerer Aneeqz51's Avatar
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    Some of the punishment seems too short and against rules of growtopia .
    Quote Originally Posted by 72ndSpirit View Post
    I think there should be definitive punishments laid out.

    Hosting any from of scam game (casino, drop games): 60 day ban.
    Hosting another one (2nd offense): 240 day ban.
    Hosting anymore scams: Suspension.

    Harassing players: 3 day tape.
    Harassing payers with alts: 3 day ban.
    Harassing players again: 20 day ban.
    Harassing players anymore: 60 day ban.

    Autofarming: Suspension

    Being rude in SBs: 7 days without megaphone.
    Being rude in SBs twice: 20 days without megaphone.
    Being rude in SBs thrice: 100 days without megaphone.
    Anymore after that: 250 days without megaphone.

    Advertising a scam: 7 day curse.
    Advertising a scam twice: 30 day ban.
    Advertising a scam thrice: 100 day ban.
    Anymore after that: Permanent ban.

    Playing any form of scam game: 3 day curse.
    Playing another: 5 day Ban.
    Playing a third one: 7 day ban .
    Playing a fourth one: 20 day ban.
    Playing a fifth one: 60 day ban .
    Any after that: Suspension.

    Selling items/accounts for cash: Suspension.

    Cussing at a Moderator: 7 day ban .
    Cussing at a Moderator a second time time: 30 day tape.
    Cussing at a Moderator a fourth time: 60 day ban.
    Anymore after that: Suspension.

    Evading ban: Suspension
    Fixed them in the qoute

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chopin View Post
    I believe that most of the people who advertise illegal activities are the owners / admins of that activity so I believe suspension is a good way to get rid of them. I've also stumbled across several clickbait SB's that promise free tokens and dls if you watch XXX on YouTube. Please note that this violates Ubisoft's ToS s.3.3 (1) and can result in a suspension.
    This is not a case for some situations
    Recently Ayzore of legend got banned due to sbing a dirt game as which he didn't have link with and didn't know it was illegal . He got a permanent suspension cause of that
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  16. #36
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    bring up this post. devs rly need to take a look at this
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  17. #37
    Master Sorcerer Malware's Avatar
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    Huh, I don't have anything new to say that people didn't bring up.

    Maybe instead, I'll just try to summize what I think is right.

    There should be a general agreed on punishment that lasts for a certain amount of time. This is omly general, thus, can change depending on circumstances.

    I also do want more personalized messages by support. There still should be copy paste text, but it should be used alot less. Its easy to tell when they just paste something and this really just feels insulting.

    Overall, I agree with what everyone said.
    Let's make posts that count!
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  18. #38
    Master Sorcerer Chopin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aneeqz51 View Post
    Some of the punishment seems too short and against rules of growtopia .


    Fixed them in the qoute

    - - - Updated - - -



    didn't know it was illegal . He got a permanent suspension cause of that
    This is why you read the rules.
    "Not Knowing" about the legality of something is NOT an excuse.
    To thine own self be true,
    and it must follow,
    as the night the day,
    thou canst not then be false to any man.


    I have read through Ubisoft's ToS and EULA, feel free to ask any questions!

  19. #39
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    I have been playing Growtopia a long time and have never seen a moderator. If you respect the rules you will never have to worry about punishment. If you cherish your account you wouldn't risk it doing any activity that is against the rules. I have read the rules and they are not hard to understand or follow. They are not restricting. They are just basically asking a player not be disruptive to the game or community. (Don't be stupid.)

    If you break the rules I assume you don't care for your account the other players in the game or the developers. So why should I care you got banned? I don't expect anybody feels good about being punished. It's supposed to hurt and hopefully you learn a lesson.

    Most important you agreed to the rules when you created an account. You basically signed an agreement you don't agree with.

    I also don't believe every story I hear about a person getting banned. They will always minimize what they had done wrong when in reality they probably have done more than enough over time to draw the attention from the mods. They didn't randomly snipe you.

    I don't care about people who get banned and they don't care about me. Seeing threads like this make me feel so much better about Ubisoft taking over and that justice is being served.

    You don't have to be a goody two shoes or a saint. You just have to be a normal person enjoying a game.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Wilson View Post
    I have been playing Growtopia a long time and have never seen a moderator. If you respect the rules you will never have to worry about punishment. If you cherish your account you wouldn't risk it doing any activity that is against the rules. I have read the rules and they are not hard to understand or follow. They are not restricting. They are just basically asking a player not be disruptive to the game or community. (Don't be stupid.)

    If you break the rules I assume you don't care for your account the other players in the game or the developers. So why should I care you got banned? I don't expect anybody feels good about being punished. It's supposed to hurt and hopefully you learn a lesson.

    Most important you agreed to the rules when you created an account. You basically signed an agreement you don't agree with.

    I also don't believe every story I hear about a person getting banned. They will always minimize what they had done wrong when in reality they probably have done more than enough over time to draw the attention from the mods. They didn't randomly snipe you.

    I don't care about people who get banned and they don't care about me. Seeing threads like this make me feel so much better about Ubisoft taking over and that justice is being served.

    You don't have to be a goody two shoes or a saint. You just have to be a normal person enjoying a game.
    There's no false statement in ur saying.
    But they dont talk that they want to revamp banning system completely.
    They just want standardize level of punishment.
    They think mods and admins should clarify the level of punishment in each rule.
    (I apologize if my tone was aggressive )

    And i want to add some insistion.
    THEY NEED TO HEAR THE VOICE OF BANNED PEOPLE.
    they always consistently ignore them.
    So, they cant communicate with mods or admins and they cant appeal themselves.
    (Well, there's a lot of lyers in banned people, but there's a few of people who really innocent.)
    This is why some people use forum to appeal themselves.

    Thx for reading. Despite of my bad Eng.
    Have a good day.

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