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Thread: Farmer/Builder Role drop bug / balance issue

  1. #1
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    Question Farmer/Builder Role drop bug / balance issue

    If I compare Farmer and Builder Role at the same Role Level, let's take Level 4 for this example, you will notice some severe balancing issues.

    Farmer, Level 4
    Green Thumb Level 2 grants 1% chance of receiving bonus gems when harvesting trees.

    This holds true, if you break 1,200 Trees, it will trigger about a dozen times.

    Builder, Level 4
    Frugal Framework Level 2 grants 1% chance of dropping double blocks when breaking blocks.

    This doesn't hold true, and therefore is very misleading. If you break 1,200 Blocks, you are not getting a dozen double blocks drops.

    The issue
    Why? Maybe because the double block drops are tied to the regular chance of dropping a block, which is 10%.

    1% of 10% is 0.1%, which is 1 in a thousand blocks.

    Benefit of the Builder
    If you max your builder role, you will have 3 extra blocks per 1,000 blocks broken. (0.3% instead of the suggested 3%)
    Of course there are other benefits of the builder role, but these are not discussed here.

    How to fix
    There are multiple ways to rebalance this.

    Either it is independently triggered as a bonus drop, which I'd prefer, which means at role level 4 you'd get 10 triggers per 1,000 blocks broken, but would cause the problem/benefit that it is not a +1 to a regular drop anymore, but a +2 block drop.

    Or, it could be stacked with other bonus block drop triggers, as well, Buddy Block Head and Tesseract of Dimensions, to increase chances to trigger per 1,000 blocks broken, and be clear that the 1% is just a fraction of another chance, not the total.

    Dreamcatcher Staff comparison
    Just for comparison, it says in its description, 2% chance of getting extra blocks from harvesting trees!

    This holds true as well, which makes this item alone 10x more effective than a Level 8 Builder role, at a minimum of +20 extra Blocks per 1,000 Trees harvested, in comparison to +2 extra Blocks from 1,000 Blocks broken.
    Last edited by mountarreat; 11-19-2019 at 05:10 AM. Reason: Dreamcatcher Staff comparison

  2. #2
    Master Sorcerer MineDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountarreat View Post
    If I compare Farmer and Builder Role at the same Role Level, let's take Level 4 for this example, you will notice some severe balancing issues.

    Farmer, Level 4
    Green Thumb Level 2 grants 1% chance of receiving bonus gems when harvesting trees.

    This holds true, if you break 1,200 Trees, it will trigger about a dozen times.

    Builder, Level 4
    Frugal Framework Level 2 grants 1% chance of dropping double blocks when breaking blocks.

    This doesn't hold true, and therefore is very misleading. If you break 1,200 Blocks, you are not getting a dozen double blocks drops.

    The issue
    Why? Maybe because the double block drops are tied to the regular chance of dropping a block, which is 10%.

    1% of 10% is 0.1%, which is 1 in a thousand blocks.

    Benefit of the Builder
    If you max your builder role, you will have 3 extra blocks per 1,000 blocks broken. (0.3% instead of the suggested 3%)
    Of course there are other benefits of the builder role, but these are not discussed here.

    How to fix
    There are multiple ways to rebalance this.

    Either it is independently triggered as a bonus drop, which I'd prefer, which means at role level 4 you'd get 10 triggers per 1,000 blocks broken, but would cause the problem/benefit that it is not a +1 to a regular drop anymore, but a +2 block drop.

    Or, it could be stacked with other bonus block drop triggers, as well, Buddy Block Head and Tesseract of Dimensions, to increase chances to trigger per 1,000 blocks broken, and be clear that the 1% is just a fraction of another chance, not the total.

    Dreamcatcher Staff comparison
    Just for comparison, it says in its description, 2% chance of getting extra blocks from harvesting trees!

    This holds true as well, which makes this item alone 10x more effective than a Level 8 Builder role, at a minimum of +20 extra Blocks per 1,000 Trees harvested, in comparison to +2 extra Blocks from 1,000 Blocks broken.
    Interesting statistics, but it's gonna be up to the devs to see if they wanna make things more fair for both roles. All we can do now, is to hope for the best!.
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  3. #3
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    Yes, sure, it is solely up to the developers at this point. All I did was pointing out the flaws.

    My opinion is just that if you put months of work into your builder role, it should at least match the percentage of certain items you can easily obtain in the game, Dreamcatcher Staff being one of the cheapest that outperforms the Builder role, even at max level.

    Granted, DCS is about harvesting trees, not breaking blocks, but the Buddy Block Head doesn't disclose any percentages in the description for a direct comparison without guessing.

    Let's hope for the best.

  4. #4
    Master Sorcerer Malware's Avatar
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    Well, builder's role is balanced. When used with other blcok-increasing mods, the bonus is indeed quite nice. Gems are basically worthless in terms of farming often times(at least farming expensive blocks, that is). You also mention how DCS is cheaper....and well, I kinda disagree. I don't think tou will be spending 5-6 dls to get to a decent builder role as long as you only do one role a day.


    Matter of fact....builder role's buffs are better than farmer's.
    They are two types of people in the world. Me and not me.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malware View Post
    When used with other blcok-increasing mods, the bonus is indeed quite nice.
    I got Buddy Block Head, Ancestral Tesseract of Dimensions Level 5, are those the block increasing mods you mean?
    These won't influence Frugal Framework, because it's based off of a regular block drop only. No double block drops from bonus block drops.

    Sorry to blow that for you.

    You gotta break 66,667 Blocks to get 200 extra blocks from Builder's 10 Frugal Framework.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malware View Post
    You also mention how DCS is cheaper....and well, I kinda disagree. I don't think tou will be spending 5-6 dls to get to a decent builder role as long as you only do one role a day.
    Does that mean you never spend any World Locks on Submit x Quests? Let's do the math.

    Someone on the forum mentioned it takes about 359 Quests to max Builder. That means almost a full year without skipping any, if you would skip, you'd need to extend your journey or pay gems to do the second quest.

    Ok, now if 1/3 of the quests (120) require you to submit something and you spend on average 5 World Locks for that 120*5 = 600, and there's your Dreamcatcher Staff.

    Not included the overall time spent, an entire year, and if you are tempted to spend gems to do a 2nd Quest, whether you skipped the first or not, it's more expensive than the Dreamcatcher Staff.

    Dreamcatcher Staff Effectiveness

    This was just to clarify that you can get easily a stack (200+) of extra blocks from harvesting 10,000 Trees with Dreamcatcher Staff (less then 4 full farms of trees), as opposed to breaking 66,667 Blocks with Builder Level 10 to get the same quantity of drops (a bit less than 25 farms full of blocks).

    The DCS you just buy, or get 'free' as a reward if lucky, the builder's role you build for months and it just doesn't make the cut in comparison.

  6. #6
    Lesser Wizard Climper's Avatar
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    It's not a bug. It has 0,5%/1%/1,5%/2% or 3% chance of giving double blocks from breaking blocks, but it's just oddly explained. When a block drops from breaking a block, it has the X% chance of doubling.

    I personally don't think it's unbalanced compared to the cost of getting Builder Lv.10, as if you farm unfarmables like Asteroids, you can make 40-50 wls extra profit from just 1 farm. Farming that 1 farm also takes just around 2 hours.

  7. #7
    Master Sorcerer DeLixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malware View Post
    Well, builder's role is balanced. When used with other blcok-increasing mods, the bonus is indeed quite nice. Gems are basically worthless in terms of farming often times(at least farming expensive blocks, that is). You also mention how DCS is cheaper....and well, I kinda disagree. I don't think tou will be spending 5-6 dls to get to a decent builder role as long as you only do one role a day.


    Matter of fact....builder role's buffs are better than farmer's.
    That's only if you ignore how much the farmer role drops are worth.
    Depending on how much you farm that's A LOT of additional income.

  8. #8
    Master Sorcerer Vale0203's Avatar
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    +1

    The bonus from builder role is just disappointing and not noticeable, even when farming in larger quantities.

  9. #9
    Lesser Wizard Oakum's Avatar
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    In order for the chance for double blocks to activate, there must be a block dropped from breaking that block first. Doesn't take a genius to realise that.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakum View Post
    In order for the chance for double blocks to activate, there must be a block dropped from breaking that block first. Doesn't take a genius to realise that.
    Exactly, that's why it is effectively 0.3% at max, hence barely noticeable.

    The builder role takes longer to max, and costs more than farmer, if you spend gems on multiple quests.

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