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Thread: Punishment for BFG owner

  1. #49
    Lesser Wizard Bardes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R4Z View Post
    Both world make profit while owners offline. Both world has rule breaker inside.

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    Stopping rule breaker is actually game moderators job, not players job. They should be happy just to have players helping them, not punishing.

    Moderators got paid to do it and if they missed any cheater, they got away.
    Players are forced to do the job without any payment and if they missed any cheater, they got punished

    That is just a ridiculous rule.
    Yeah sure, then try it and get a deserved punishment What am I say more?
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    Master Sorcerer R4Z's Avatar
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    im going to only reply to valid argument.

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  3. #51
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    Well, I used to be heavily involved in this discussion, and I believe all the quotes above by OP were written by me. I went off the game for quite a few months and was aghast at the response they gave. Very aghast, and disappointed. I'll give my few arguments against some arguments I see here and keep the discussion as non-hostile as possible.

    My thoughts are split into various replies (because of 403 Forbidden)
    *Forbidden 403 is obstructing my replies, hope it's not the forums forbidding me from commenting on this particular thread, becuz I could reply with ease in other threads
    *Take note, I am a BFG owner.


    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyNex View Post
    OP and the other dude from the other thread are the only people complaining about this apparently...

    NO you WON'T get a moderator for your own BFG world. Why is your BFG more important than anybody else's?

    NO you WON'T have right to whine about getting punished for not protecting your own BFG.

    NO you WON'T be able to go to sleep peacefully while people happily break your farmables.

    For any other questions visit this site!
    Mmhmm, I agree with your first statement

    Yes, we don't have the right to whine about getting punished. But, as I have said there are certain loopholes within the system right now. And I shall reinstate a particular loophole, ANY SINGLE AUTOFARMER IN YOUR WORLD AT ANY ONE TIME WILL RESULT IN A PUNISHMENT. Just 1, if he was in the world for 1 second, your world gets punished. Funny, isn't it? We aren't gods. Please read the above quote in OP.

    To say that ALL BFG owners AFK while hosting it is an over-generalisation. Hence, your last statement is entirely illogical.

    Quote Originally Posted by QueenChloe View Post
    We can't get rid of autos and if they wouldn't punish bfg owners then why would bfg owner care if auto farmers break their blocks fast and easy. So all what i know is, that this game need this rule, cause selfish, greedy kids doesn't care a who breaks their blocks, they want just fast and easy wls. Most of doesn't care who they hurt or what damage they cause in process. So, we can blame again greedy ppl from this rule. If players would think something else than wls, we wouldn't need these rules. All most evil rules are caused by players themselfs and sadly, if one screws up, all get punishment. That is how world run. If ppl would stop abuse every possible loophole in this game, we would have much better game and community. But cause players are kids, that wont ever happen.
    Again, another over-generalisation. To say that every BFG owners are "selfish,greedy kids (who) doesn't care who they hurt or what damage they cause in (the) process." Please refrain from such labels.

    You don't seem to understand the crux of the discussion. We are not shirking our responsibilities at all. We are all trying our best to combat auto-farmers. Is it that wrong of us, who are ACTIVELY combating autofarmers to try to have a revision of the policy? We are not asking for us to be let scott-free, we are simply asking Ubisoft to edit it to cover the grey areas, and leave SPACE and ROOM for certain cases due to limitations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law_Growtopia View Post
    Don't expect it to be easier than a buy+ world. BFG worlds are meant to be hard to manage or otherwise, the economy will literally crash. If every bfg owner in gt (500+) could let people break overnight, then the gem price would prob be 3-5k/wl. Also, It's your world so you gotta have some responsibility and If you are busy with school/work or whatever, then find an alternative way to profit from.
    Still missing the point. It's definitely not easier, I'm just stating that it is impossible because of the way the policy is phrased. (Read spoilers)

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    As again, I'm not talking abt the energy. It's about the ability to do so completely. If one DCs at any moment or the wifi breaks down, or he went to the toilet, and an auto comes in and break for just 1 second and a mod sees it, the world gets nuked. That's what the policy suggests, no room for argument. Yes, they said the mods will investigate everything, but mods don't have access to any logs. It has been said last year, not sure about if this is still the case. And how will the investigation be conducted? The mods will just say we are lying even though we are actually innocent. Acceptable reasoning but poor judgment.

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    As again, I'm not talking abt the energy. It's about the ability to do so completely. If one DCs at any moment or the wifi breaks down, or he went to the toilet, and an auto comes in and break for just 1 second and a mod sees it, the world gets nuked. That's what the policy suggests, no room for argument. Yes, they said the mods will investigate everything, but mods don't have access to any logs. It has been said last year, not sure about if this is still the case. And how will the investigation be conducted? The mods will just say we are lying even though we are actually innocent. Acceptable reasoning but poor judgment.

    Regarding BUY+ worlds, I understand the world cannot get nuked and all the positions of owners. But I want to bring across a point. Just like how BFG owners are expected MINIMALLY to supervise when they're online, shouldn't BUY+ world owners need to do it when they are active and in their worlds too? Many of them don't even bother supervising the worlds and just leave it to rot. And I'm not advocating for a nuke. Perhaps a temporary ban on the world or even a curse on the player for a few hours (very very puny btw). Just for the namesake, impose such punishments at the bare minimum, right?

    One person even gave a scenario about a self-serve store. I'll give another. A person rents his area to various shopowners to sell their stuff. However, a group of people from another shop barges in and block their shops by advertising other stuff. Who should get punished? The renter should get punished too because he didn't control it even though there are reports. Now, this isn't entirely the case for BUY+ worlds I understand, but just a counter to that scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law_Growtopia View Post
    BFG worlds are meant to be monitored by someone 24/7. Buy+ worlds are just meant for people to trade/owners to profit. Now, this is why most buy+ owners have rlocks in them. I, myself don't want to be 50+ spammers everyday so i just put rlocks. This also allows me to gain more wls so it's like hitting two birds with one stone. Another thing is a bfg world only costs 50-100dls to actually start one. While a decent buy+ world costs x10 that so that's why the owners of the buy+ have the "right" to get more wls since they invested in more wls. If you're referring to "a bad environment to trade in=ban the world", then that's never gonna happen. Worlds and worlds. If you do not want to trade in it, it literally takes 2 seconds to leave and find an alternative world or even make the item yourself. You're actually lucky to even have the opportunity to gain this much wls just by letting people farm for you. Back then, I spent 4-6 hours breaking grass and gained around 10-15wls a day by doing that. Just simply put, If you don't have the energy to open a bfg world, then don't open it. It's not hard so stop blaming everyone.
    Above paragraph meant to reply to this

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyNex View Post
    Here is a GENUINE good example of how that all works.

    A homeless man comes to a random store, is hungry and is looking for something to NOT pay for. A store has a self service for nuts and raisins. And instead of buying any of these he just starts eating everything in the middle of the store. In the mean time, workers in the store are not looking (doing something else, doesn't matter) and the man still keeps eating! Eventually manager will come and blame WORKERS for not overseeing that territory! so the outcome would be: homeless man would be punished (for doing something illegal) AND a worker would be punished for not controlling the situation in the workplace.

    Do you connect the dots now?

    (I realize some things are not that accurate in the story, but you will see the important part.)
    Reply below

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    Funnily, this story does have loopholes. Even if the homeless man eats up everything, the company wouldn't be affected in any way, only some homeless people would not have access to the food. Now, what if there are a bunch of homeless people just storming and raiding the place and eating the food, can a mere storeworker stop them? No, so obviously they call the police. Now if the police come in and arrest them, but at the same time, blame the storeowner for not keeping them at bay, do you think it's fair? No.

    That's the situation in our worlds. If many auto farmers come in periodically, we certainly have technical difficulties and limitations in combating them. The storeowner in your example also has to restock the supplies, entertain customers etc. Same for BFG owners, and even more so for us, it's not even that obvious that people are auto-ing, we have to pull and clarify. Furthermore, we also have to restock, entertain our breakers requests to open rooms etc. It's a daunting task too. Sure, you might say if we are not up for it, why do it? We do it because we can actually do it. But it's just plain impossible to actl completely keep our worlds free of autofarmers at any one time when we are active in game due to various reasons I have stated above.

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    All in all, I stand by my statement that it is a SHARED RESPONSIBILITY. Mods should not shirk it totally to us, nor should we shirk it totally to them. The stakeholders must cooperate for success in this war against auto farmers. Since everyone likes giving scenarios, sure I'll drop one here. A SCENARIO THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS AND IS FACTUAL.

    Healthcare comparisons. Why is shared responsibilty important? Looking at the USA would tell you the answer, It's market based and market driven. The gvnt plays no part in it and healthcare is exorbitant in the country. Low gvnt interference and high cost for the citizens, resulting in unequal distribution of healthcare and unaffordable to low SES. This is what happens when the responsibility is shirked by the gvnt. Look at Sweden, its gvnt financed and it results in high taxes. But it's world class, universal, cheap. But in SG, the gvnt controls the market, imposes subsidies, and the citizens co pay their healthcare fees, have ownership and self responsibility in their health. This makes it accessible to all, and no high taxes are imposed. This is how shared responsibility works!
    *Not siding with any political affiliations
    *Just my PURE OPINION
    *Learnt this in my school

    Please read the spoilers. The policy has a zero-tolerance against any situation. No room for discussion and debate over punishments. Sure, those scenarios in the spoilers have not happened yet(maybe it did but not publicised), but we should prepare for the uncertain future.
    If the people think that it's totally the owners' responsibility, then I concede to their thoughts. However, in such a case, since for various reasons I have stated that if provisions are not made and boundaries not drawn, then just BAN BFGs totally. Simple as that.

  4. #52
    Lesser Knight
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    Default BFG Owners That Allow Autofarming

    I have tried to post this for over a day let's see if doing this works

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    I think the mods should focus more on world where the owner allows and advertises auto instead of banning free bfgs where sometime an auto slips by.

    Autofarming is impossible to determine to 100% if the player is looking at the screen and can end the auto as soon as they get pulled. So right now people can auto as long as they pay attention to the screen.

    How does moderators determine autofarming? Right now its also illegal to watch youtube and not pay that much attention to the game as you spam space and drag the mouse back and forth while being zoomed in. There is almost no way the moderators can be sure that they are using auto or just looking away. But you can be kinda sure if they have been breaking for 1 min or more after being pulled but there still is the chance that they are just not looking at the screen and breaking normally.

    This problem should be on ubisoft to develop and monitor people autofarming. Is there no pattern they can see? Don't know what is possible to do with growtopia maybe its really limited but they should be able to see if the same person has been breaking and placing with the exact same delay for a long time. I doubt many of the autofarmers has randomly added delay it's mostly very basic ones being used.

    There should definitely be more information to the players with sbs and such that autofarming are illegal almost all of the autofarmers deny that its illegal to use since it seems so accepted to do it and without much information. Sure some can just be saying that but still.

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    The biggest problem is definitely when owners spam in buybfg that they allow auto in their world for one more worldlock and such. They are the problem that needs to be dealt with. Moderators should go to buybfg to see who says its allowed in their world and then go there in disguise to see if they allow it. They can also read on boards and look around in the world what the prices are. It's very obvious if the owner allows auto they dont try to hide it at all. One thing to think about is that sometimes because the auto problem is so wide spread players think it's not that big of a deal and the admins of the world sells auto to player even if the owner has been very clear in the rules that its never allowed. Doing this and banning the most obvious world that CLEARLY WITHOUT A DOUBT allows autofarming (Check signs, boards, sbs about the bfg, ask the owner if you can rent auto) they should be nuked right away and this should definitely happen more often then what it is.

    Autofarming is more harmful to the economy than for example casinos. But mods seem to be paying no attention to the auto allowing bfgs and all to casinos which i can understand because it doesnt look that good to lawmakers when they see that gambling is going on in a kids game. But there should still be more nuking of auto allowing bfgs.

    I have tried many times to message mods about worlds that have on board that auto costs 2 wls to use and more but i havent seen a single world getting nuked.

    If moderators dont have time to check this they should make the guardians check buybfg and the worlds who allows auto. Maybe this wouldn't work but having special players being able to mark which bfg that clearly allows auto so mods can check later.

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    UPDATE: Been trying to post this for over a day but keep getting error 403. Saw CommanderAly SB that you shouldn't host auto bfgs very nice to see



    Had to split this into multiple posts to not get error 403

  5. #53
    Lesser Wizard
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    To reply to above:
    Yeah, I agree totally with your opinion that they should definitely start with the ones that allow auto clearly without any doubt. For one, it sends out a message to both bfg owners and autofarmers themselves, a very strong one. For two, it's fairly easier to ban those worlds first. The focus should start shifting from casinos to bfg because auto-bfg is ruining the economy to a larger extent. And well, the war against csn has been a huge failure in my opinion, everytime i logon csn is in the list of recommended worlds

    I'm still looking for the revision of the policy because of the various grey areas that it displays. The policy does not recognise the efforts at all but rather only recognise the presence of autos in the world which is rather unreasonable. An occasional auto in your world can get you punished be it he has been in the world for 1 second. The policy is obviously not detailed enough. Banning innocent owners do not help in the situation at all.

  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by R4Z View Post
    I know you guys might be tired of this, but please bear with me. I'm just not done yet.
    My last thread got closed due to toxicity. So I will try to keep this formal.

    Most of you know that if a BFG world is caught with autofarmer, it will receive a few warnings then nuke.
    If you think the current punishment is fair, check out replies from this thread. It has some valid arguments.
    https://www.growtopiagame.com/forums...t-BFGs-too-ig)
    Ignore the op, scroll down and check the replies below.

    If you think the rule doesn't apply to trade world owner, check the link above too. It has some valid points on how it also should apply to trade world.

    I created this thread because Daewod said:
    Which I really hope they do. If they really want to do this, they need to reply and keep in touch with the discussion unlike last time which they left me bumping the thread alone for a few days like a dead man.

    Some valid argument:






    Note: I'm not looking for suggestion to make autofarmer leave the world. This thread is for the discussion of punishment for BFG owner and how the rule should be adjust and revise.
    I don't think it is fair. I do think they should be banned but it's hard to tell sometimes whether someone is hacking.

  7. #55
    Lesser Wizard Sombodi's Avatar
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    Dang this thread has lasted longer than my last relationship
    Anyways, check out my YT Channel, I make the crappiest content out there

  8. #56
    Master Sorcerer R4Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sombodi View Post
    Dang this thread has lasted longer than my last relationship
    I will keep this up until they do something about their words.

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  9. #57

    Default Rule sometime cant be change

    Quote Originally Posted by R4Z View Post
    I know you guys might be tired of this, but please bear with me. I'm just not done yet.
    My last thread got closed due to toxicity. So I will try to keep this formal.

    Most of you know that if a BFG world is caught with autofarmer, it will receive a few warnings then nuke.
    If you think the current punishment is fair, check out replies from this thread. It has some valid arguments.
    https://www.growtopiagame.com/forums...t-BFGs-too-ig)
    Ignore the op, scroll down and check the replies below.

    If you think the rule doesn't apply to trade world owner, check the link above too. It has some valid points on how it also should apply to trade world.

    I created this thread because Daewod said:
    Which I really hope they do. If they really want to do this, they need to reply and keep in touch with the discussion unlike last time which they left me bumping the thread alone for a few days like a dead man.

    Some valid argument:






    Note: I'm not looking for suggestion to make autofarmer leave the world. This thread is for the discussion of punishment for BFG owner and how the rule should be adjust and revise.
    I do agree some of the punishment for bfg owner 2 year ban it pretty hard, but if they not hard on player then many will still allow bot to enter there world and break for free.

    I use to run 100 chand farm everyday, and have 3 magplant in 10 farm ready so player can break, and I didnt charge room was free, even when I ask them please dont auto in my world it illegal
    Player will lie to me, and the moment I come back check they spamming and I end up baning them because I dont allow but because it easy for alot them get gem they wait to I leave my world check on other trade world they sneak back in and do the same stuff. But at time fly I see to many world being nuke I really dont feel like losing item I work hard for and close bfg and sold all magplant. To be honest I really dont think there a solution for bfg world many will break rule and owner will be punish.

    I think if a player dont have time and cant sit there guard the farm, they just have to invest in other form of profiting, like trade world mass project. Sometimes thing doesn't go the way we plan, we just got to find other way to profit. Good luck on your thread and hopefully a developer can see it , and help, u but for me I just give up on bfg and find other way to profit.

  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q2bunnys View Post
    I do agree some of the punishment for bfg owner 2 year ban it pretty hard, but if they not hard on player then many will still allow bot to enter there world and break for free.

    I use to run 100 chand farm everyday, and have 3 magplant in 10 farm ready so player can break, and I didnt charge room was free, even when I ask them please dont auto in my world it illegal
    Player will lie to me, and the moment I come back check they spamming and I end up baning them because I dont allow but because it easy for alot them get gem they wait to I leave my world check on other trade world they sneak back in and do the same stuff. But at time fly I see to many world being nuke I really dont feel like losing item I work hard for and close bfg and sold all magplant. To be honest I really dont think there a solution for bfg world many will break rule and owner will be punish.

    I think if a player dont have time and cant sit there guard the farm, they just have to invest in other form of profiting, like trade world mass project. Sometimes thing doesn't go the way we plan, we just got to find other way to profit. Good luck on your thread and hopefully a developer can see it , and help, u but for me I just give up on bfg and find other way to profit.
    The punishment is fair in my opinion. However, the reason behind it is grey-ish. It's not abt not guarding the break area 24/7, it's abt whether if one can even do so. It's no longer abt "wanting to" but "whether if it can be done or not". As said, if even one person breaks illegally in the world for 1 second, you get punished. It's unfair. Not the punishment but why the owner received the punishment for not being able to ban the autofarmer in 1 second. The scope of the policy has to be adjusted, it has to be fair to us owners too. The effort of us banning autos shld be recognised, and shld be used as a basis in dishing out punishments.

  11. #59
    Master Sorcerer R4Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q2bunnys View Post
    Player will lie to me, and the moment I come back......I leave my world check on other trade world they sneak back in and do the same stuff.
    I did what u did. But what if mod come in during the time u leave?

    That's another story for "What if"!

    I just asked them to revise the rule or make it specific so it doesn't hurt honest players. Also considering the history, i don't want to go thru the trouble of contacting support in case something go wrong.

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  12. #60
    Master Sorcerer R4Z's Avatar
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    we're happy to partake in a constructive, non-hostile discussion about adjusting the rules for Owners.... we always want to make sure that BFGs and punishments for autofarming are handled without hurting the community and the playerbase as a whole
    Liars

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